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Stacey
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12 Jun 2012 20:30 |
HI im trying to trace my grandfathers familytree but other than knowing my granfathers name timothy mcgreal we know very little about him!! what i do know is that timothy was was either born in september 1908 or march 1909!!! on his army demob papers it states he was born september 1908! but all the online information including military records state march 1909..Iv found records for timothy 1909 living at walton on the hill workhouse aged 2 which i know is right.i have also found records for timothy 1909 going to canada in 1925! he returned in 1928 to liverpool. i have a record for timothy 1909 getting married to an enid birch?? i know he had 3 children to the first wife all of whom are as yet unknown. timothy was a prisoner of war for 4 years at stalag 20b poland on his release in 1945 he was known to be in the little horton area of bradford. he is believed to have had 2 brothers and a sister we are unsure of the names. although it was mentioned that one of the brothers was a boxer!! iny information would be great :-)
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EvieBeavie
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12 Jun 2012 20:33 |
Stacey since you are just starting out, you want to start by having the thrill of discovery for yourself !
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Go there and search for
mcgreal timothy
and you will find his birth to start with
Now, I see you probably know that -- registered in early 1909. It is possible he was born earlier in 1908 and registered late ... you have to get his birth certificate to know for sure.
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MarieCeleste
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12 Jun 2012 20:33 |
Hello Stacey and welcome to the boards.
One of your points - the children to his first wife - can easily be found using FreeBMD http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Just put in surname McGreal and mother's name Birch.
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MarieCeleste
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12 Jun 2012 20:35 |
You will need to order certificates along the way to confirm details.
The only place to order them online is GRO (everywhere else is a rip off). GRO charge £9.25 which is less than some register offices charge.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
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KathleenBell
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12 Jun 2012 20:38 |
This is the only birth on Findmypast:-
Name: MCGREAL, Timothy Registration district: West Derby County: Lancashire Year of registration: 1909 Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3 Volume no: 8B Page no: 520
This looks like his first marriage:-
Name: MCGREAL, Timothy Registration district: Liverpool County: Lancashire Year of registration: 1932 Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Spouse's last name: Birch Volume no: 8B Page no: 216
Name: BIRCH, Edith Registration district: Liverpool County: Lancashire Year of registration: 1932 Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Spouse's last name: Mcgreal Volume no: 8B Page no: 216
I can find no children's births from this marriage.
Kath. x
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KathleenBell
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12 Jun 2012 20:40 |
Is this him in Prisoner of War records? :-
WWII Prisoners of War
Name: T. MCGREAL Rank: Private Regiment: The South Lancashire Regiment Army No: 3650596 Camp No: 20B Prisoner of War No: 10045
Record office: Infantry Record Office, The Public Hall, Lune Street, Preston, Lancashire
Camp type: STALAG Camp location: Marienburg
Kath. x
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MarieCeleste
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12 Jun 2012 20:41 |
His arrival in Canada (I know you may already have this)
Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 Name: Timothy McGrael Gender: Male Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1909 Birth Country: England Date of Arrival: 28 Aug 1925 Vessel: Montnairn Port of Arrival: Quebec Port of Departure: Liverpool, England Roll: T-14718
His trip was arranged by the Liverpool Guardians.
His next of kin in England is given as John McGreal, 7 Netherfield Place, Liverpool - perhaps his brother? EDIT: Or is it his father? See 1911 posted below.
He and all of the other children on the ship were going to Mother Evangelist, 1155 Wellington Street, Ottawa, Ontario.
There are a number of items on Mother Evangelist O'Keeffe if you Google.
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KathleenBell
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12 Jun 2012 20:48 |
Don't know if this might be a sister to Timothy but she is in the same workhouse in 1911:-
1911 census transcription details for: Workhouse West Derby Union, WEST DERBY UNION WORKHOUSE, RICE LANE
National Archive Reference: RG14PN22406 RD455 SD4 ED50 SN9999 Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: Walton Parish: Walton on the Hill Enum. District: 50
Address: Rise Lane Walton-On-The-Hill Liverpool County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
MCGREAL, Rose F 6 1905 Lancs Liverpool
Kath. x
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MarieCeleste
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12 Jun 2012 20:51 |
I think this may be that Rose's baptism:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906 Name: Rosa McGreol Birth Date: 24 Jul 1904 Baptism Date: 24 Sep 1904 Parish: All Saints (Omnium) Father's Name: Joannis Mcgreol (John) Mother's name: Mariae Coughlan (Mary)
Godmother was Margarita (Margaret) Shaughnessy.
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KathleenBell
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12 Jun 2012 20:51 |
Possible marriage for this Rose McGreal:-
Name: MCGREAL, Rose Registration district: West Derby County: Lancashire Year of registration: 1932 Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Spouse's last name: Newton Volume no: 8B Page no: 1203
Name: NEWTON, Thomas W Registration district: West Derby County: Lancashire Year of registration: 1932 Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Spouse's last name: Mcgreal Volume no: 8B Page no: 1203
Kath. x
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EvieBeavie
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12 Jun 2012 20:53 |
There is no death or remarriage for an Edith Mcgreal (the one death for that name is a younger Edith who married a different Mcgreal).
Timothy's own death record shows him to have had his Sept 1908 birthday before his death later in the year in 1961
Name: Timothy McGreal Birth Date: abt 1908 Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1961 Age at Death: 53 Registration district: Bradford Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding Volume: 2b Page: 120
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MarieCeleste
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12 Jun 2012 20:57 |
There is a John and Mary McGreal on the 1911, is it possible they just couldn't cope with their children and some went in the workhouse, subsequently to Canada?
MCGREAL, John Head Married M 53 1858 Mariner Mayo Ireland Resident MCGREAL, Mary Wife Married 11 years F 49 1862 Lanc Liverpool MCGREAL, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 18 1893 Lanc Liverpool MCGREAL, Thomas Son M 12 1899 Lanc Liverpool MCGREAL, James Son M 10 1901 Lanc Liverpool MCGREAL, Mary Daughter F 8 1903 Lanc Liverpool MCGREAL, Bridget Daughter F 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911 Lanc Liverpool
RG number: RG14 Piece: 22506 Reference: RG14PN22506 RG78PN1324 RD455 SD7 ED23 SN149 Registration District: West Derby Sub District: North Everton Enumeration District: 23 Parish: Everton
Address: 117 Towson Street Everton Liverpool County: Lancashire
They'd been married 21 years, not 11. They'd had 12 children, 8 of which are still alive.
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Eringobragh1916
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12 Jun 2012 21:02 |
Marriage of John and Mary...(Parents of Rose)
1889. 363 ST MARY RC Church HIGHFIELD ST Liverpool JOHN McGREAL MARY CATHERINE COUGHLIN
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EvieBeavie
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12 Jun 2012 21:03 |
Here is Timothy's Home Child record
no other McGrael or McGreal shown in the database
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-100.01-e.php
Surname: McGRAEL Given Name: Timothy Age: 16 Sex: M Ship: Montnairn Year of Arrival: 1925 Departure Port: Liverpool Departure Date: 1925-08-21 Arrival Port: Quebec Arrival Date: 1925-08-28 Party: Catholic Emigration Association Destination: Ottawa, Ontario Comments: 51 children to Mother Evangelist, St. Georges Home, Ottawa. Notes: vol. 11, p. 88 Source: Library and Archives Canada Reference: RG 76 C1a Microfilm: T-14718 Type of Record: Passenger Lists Group of Children Traveling Together
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MarieCeleste
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12 Jun 2012 22:30 |
This was Timothy returning in 1928:
UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 Name: Timothy Mcgreal Birth Date: abt 1909 Age: 19 Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States Arrival Date: 30 Apr 1928 Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England Ship Name: Montclare Shipping Line: Cunard Line Official Number: 145923
Although it states he'd arrived from New York the original image says he'd embarked at New Brunswick (St John NB). He was a tailor's presser and his address in England was to be with Mrs M McGreal, 7 Netherfield Place, Liverpool.
Might be coincidence, but seems to tie in with John and Mary, as per the outgoing trip to Canada and the 1911 census for that couple.
Certificates definitely needed.
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Stacey
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13 Jun 2012 00:20 |
just wanted to say a big thank you for the responces i do have most of the info you have given me so that tells me i must be on the right track!! wasnt aware he had so many siblings!! mariecelest did 4 pass away? evie thank you so much for the link i shall look forwards to reading about the lifes they lead!! its shocking to find the harshness of life back then and how they lived its what i wanted to find out how his life was and not just a name but yeah thank you everyone all the info matches mine its just a struggle with the parents so im going to definately get a birth certificate any more info would be greatly recieved many many thanks :-)
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Stacey
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13 Jun 2012 00:23 |
Also forgot to mention his father was a cattle doctor on the ships iv tried looking for a john mcgreal cattle doctor but no joy as yet!!! :-)
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EvieBeavie
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13 Jun 2012 02:13 |
Hi Stacey, there are so many things on line about Home Children it could keep you busy for a long time :)
I googled this
"home children" "st george's home" ottawa
and found numerous things, like
http://www.bytown.net/homekids.htm
You can add Timothy's name to the list of Home Children in Ottawa at that site.
Timothy was one of the later arrivals (home children continued to go to Australia for many years after the practice stopped for Canada) and he was an older boy, and probably had some say in his fate and knew he was going to Canada to work in agriculture. He was one of quite a few who decided not to stay once they were old enough to return.
The hard truth is that had many of the children stayed in England (those who were really orphaned and destitute, not those whose parents were lied to or tricked), especially in the cities before 1900, they would have had at least equally hard lives, without the opportunities that some home children did manage to find despite the isolation from home and family.
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Eringobragh1916
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13 Jun 2012 08:32 |
Stacy I wonder if this may be relative to the "Boxing" connection you refererred to....
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12293:john-porky-mcgreal--a-tribute&catid=14&Itemid=100008
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PricklyHolly
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13 Jun 2012 08:33 |
??
1891 England Census about Catharine McGreal Name: Catharine McGreal Age: 10/12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: John McGreal Mother's name: Mary C McGreal Gender: Female Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Everton Ecclesiastical parish: St Polycarp Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: North Everton ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2951 Folio: 70 Page Number: 21 Household Members: Name Age John McGreal 24 Born Westport Ireland....Cattle Man on Ships Mary C McGreal 21 Catharine McGreal 10/12
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