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Confused!!!

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Nina

Nina Report 21 Jun 2012 22:49

My Great Grandfather William S Lovell - married twice to same Grandmother?

Entries found:

1890 vol 1 b 874 W S Lovell, Hackney to L Prophet

AND

1891 vol 3 a 525 W S Lovell, Edmonton to L Prophet

Question.......... am I searching correctly or is there a totally legitimate reason for this duplication at two Registrars?

Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks

:-S

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 21 Jun 2012 22:53

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1890
ELKINS Florence Hackney 1b 874
Ellwood William John Hackney 1b 874
LOVELL William Samuel Hackney 1b 874
PROPHET Louisa Hackney 1b 874

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1891
Lovell William Samuel Edmonton 3a 525
Prophet Louisa Edmonton 3a 525
Wills Horace Stephen C Edmonton 3a 525

Might there have been some reason why the first marriage wasn't legal so they did it again?

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 21 Jun 2012 22:56

Was he in the Army as sometimes they got married twice as proof was needed

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 21 Jun 2012 22:57

Name: William Samuel Lovell
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: Louisa Prophet
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 13 Jul 1890
Parish: West Hackney
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Samuel Lovell
Spouse Father Name: Richard Prophet
Register Type: Parish Register


Name: William Samuel Lovell
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Spouse Name: Louisa Prophet
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 Jul 1891
Parish: Tottenham Holy Trinity
Borough: Haringey
Father Name: Samuel Lovell
Register Type: Parish Register

Andrew

Andrew Report 21 Jun 2012 22:58

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William Samuel Lovell
Name: William Samuel Lovell
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: Louisa Prophet
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 13 Jul 1890
Parish: West Hackney
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Samuel Lovell
Spouse Father Name: Richard Prophet
Register Type: Parish Register



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William Samuel Lovell
Name: William Samuel Lovell
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Spouse Name: Louisa Prophet
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 Jul 1891
Parish: Tottenham Holy Trinity
Borough: Haringey
Father Name: Samuel Lovell
Register Type: Parish Register

Andy

Catherine

Catherine Report 21 Jun 2012 23:04

Just for info:-
1911 England Censusabout William Samuel Lovell
Name: William Samuel Lovell
Age in 1911: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Tottenham, Middlesex
Civil parish: Ilford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address: 6 Railway Terrace, High Road, Ilford, S X
Marital Status: Married

xxxx Years Married: 19 xxxx
Estimated Marriage Year: 1892

Occupation: Boot RepairerRiveter
Registration district: Romford
Registration District Number: 191
Sub-registration district: Ilford
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 23
Piece: 9864
Household Members: Name Age
William Samuel Lovell 43
Louisa Lovell 42
Charles Lawrance Augustus Lovell 16
Walter Robert Lovell 8
Alfred Frederick Lovell 4

...............................

Name:Charles Laurance Augustus Lovell
Record Type:Baptism
Estimated Birth Date:abt 1895
Baptism Date:9 Jun 1895
Father's Name:William Samuel Lovell
Mother's name:Louisa Lovell
Parish or Poor Law Union:Tottenham
Borough:Haringey
Register Type:Parish Registers

Reggie

Reggie Report 21 Jun 2012 23:05

Name: Louisa Prophet
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Spouse Name: William Samuel Lovell
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 13 Jul 1890
Parish: West Hackney
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Richard Prophet - Tailor
Spouse Father Name: Samuel Lovell
Register Type: Parish Register

Witnesses William Shildrick and ?? ???? Petty


Name: Louisa Prophet
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Spouse Name: William Samuel Lovell***********Boot Salesman
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 Jul 1891
Parish: Tottenham Holy Trinity
Borough: Haringey
Spouse Father Name: Samuel Lovell
Register Type: Parish Register
Bride's father Richard Prophet - Tailor

Witnesses RJM Prophet and Elizabeth Lovell

They are described as bachelor and spinster respectively on each cert.......

There wasn't any need for parental consent, as they were both over 21 the first time they 'married'........although the fact that the witnesses to the second event were relations may have some significance

Lynski

Lynski Report 21 Jun 2012 23:06

In 1891 William wasn't shown as married?

LOVELL, Samuel Head Married M 57 1834 Boot Manufacturer Grendon, Northamptonshire VIEW
LOVELL, Sarah Wife Married F 56 1835 Wollaston, Northamptonshire VIEW
LOVELL, William Son M 22 1869 Boot And Shoe Assistant Tottenham, Middlesex VIEW
LOVELL, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 20 1871 Dressmaker Tottenham, Middlesex VIEW
LOVELL, Frederick Son M 15 1876 Scholar Tottenham, Middlesex VIEW

Piece: 1068
Folio: 23
Page: 40
Registration District: Edmonton
Civil Parish: Tottenham
Municipal Borough:
Address: 27, Bootmaker, Church Road, Tottenham
County: Middlesex


In 1901 he is -

LOVELL, William S Head Married M 32 1869 Boot Maker Tottenham, Middlesex VIEW
LOVELL, Louisa Wife Married F 32 1869 Edmonton, Middlesex VIEW
LOVELL, Lawrance C Son M 5 1896 Stratford, Essex VIEW
LOVELL, Ida M Daughter F 2 1899 Forest Gate, Essex VIEW

Piece: 662
Folio: 133
Page: 38
Registration District: Kingston
Civil Parish: Kingston upon Thames
Municipal Borough:
Address: 43, Somerset Road, Kingston Upon Thames
County: Surrey

Nina

Nina Report 21 Jun 2012 23:10

I am not sure if William served in the Army, will have to ask my mother.

However, I know that Williams father was a Robert (not Samuel), as was his elder brother by the name of Robert! Although, I will have to check to see if his fathers middle name was Samuel!

:-0

Catherine

Catherine Report 21 Jun 2012 23:15

Louisa is also noted as single in 1901:-

1891 England Censusabout Louisa Prophet
Name: Louisa Prophet
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard W Prophet
Mother's name: Lydia Prophet
Gender: Female
Where born: Edmonton, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page

Piece: 1071
Folio: 31
Page Number: 60
Household Members: Name Age
Richard W Prophet 62
Lydia Prophet 61
Louisa Prophet 22


lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 21 Jun 2012 23:18

married 1st in CofE / non-conformist church then in RC??

frequent occurence in mixed religion marriages

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 21 Jun 2012 23:23

Just to prove she was over 21 (just) when the first marriage took place so it mustn't have been a parental consent issue:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Louisa Prophet
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1869
Baptism Date: 21 Mar 1869
Father's Name: Richard Wake Prophet - Tailor
Mother's name: Lydia Cowell Prophet
Parish or Poor Law Union: Upper Edmonton St James
Borough: Enfield
Register Type: Parish Registers

Reggie

Reggie Report 21 Jun 2012 23:25

Nina

William's occupation is clearly shown as boot salesman - no Army connection whatsoever

Both 'marriages' were in C of E Churches

Catherine

Catherine Report 21 Jun 2012 23:27

1881 England Censusabout William Lovell
Name: William Lovell
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Samuel Lovell
Mother's name: Sarah Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Tottenham, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Tottenham
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: 28 Church Rd

Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page

Piece: 1381
Folio: 6
Page Number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Lovell 47 - born: Grendon, Northamptonshire (Boot Manufacturer)
Sarah Lovell 46
Alfred Lovell 18
Thomas Lovell 15
William Lovell 12
Elizabeth Lovell 10
Frederick Lovell 5

What makes you think father's name was Robert?



1871 England Censusabout William L Lovell
Name: William L Lovell
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Samuel Lovell
Mother's name: Sarah A Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Tottenham, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Hallows
Town: Tottenham
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 142
Piece: 1339
Folio: 70
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Lovell 37
Sarah A Lovell 36
Charles W Lovell 16
Alfred Lovell 8
Thomas A Lovell 5
William L Lovell 2
Sarah E Lovell 9 Months
David Emery 17


MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 21 Jun 2012 23:27

Ann, don't know if this clarifies anything:

the 1890 marriage was in the parish church of West Hackney.
the 1891 marriage was in Holy Trinity, Tottenham.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 21 Jun 2012 23:29

Nina - where did you get William's father's name as Robert?

Mike *

Mike * Report 21 Jun 2012 23:36

There is a William Henry Lovell b1869 with father Robert.
Have these got mixed up somehow ?

Mike *

Mike * Report 21 Jun 2012 23:46

I wonder if you sent for the first certificate it would come back null and void ?


I've heard before about a vicar completing the licence details beforehand and then the couple ( or one of them) didn't turn up but the entry in the book wasn't cancelled.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 21 Jun 2012 23:52

Mike, aren't the certificates just copies of what's in the actual parish register? There's nothing null and void on those......

Mike *

Mike * Report 22 Jun 2012 00:03

Yes.
They were 2 separate ideas.
Sorry.

a) Maybe the first marriage was somehow found to be illegal so didn't stand ( thus now being void)

OR

Perhaps the couple didn't actually go through with the ceremony but the record was already written.



There are some examples on google
Here's one ...

http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=834