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Confused!!!

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Jun 2012 09:28

The couple signed the register on each occasion - as did the witnesses!

The groom's father was SAMUEL - occupation Bootmaker on 1890 cert - and Boot manufacturer on 1891 cert

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Louisa Prophet
Name: Louisa Prophet
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1869
Baptism Date: 21 Mar 1869
Father's Name: Richard Wake Prophet
Mother's name: Lydia Cowell Prophet
Parish or Poor Law Union: Upper Edmonton St James
Borough: Enfield
Register Type: Parish Register

1891 for LOUISA


Name: Louisa Prophet
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard W Prophet
Mother's name: Lydia Prophet
Gender: Female
Where born: Edmonton, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1071
Folio: 31
Page Number: 60
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard W Prophet 62
Lydia Prophet 61
Louisa Prophet 22


Nina

Nina Report 22 Jun 2012 17:40

Mike!

Maybe things have become a little confused for me, relating to the Robert Lovell.

Initially, before researching the family tree, I made enquiries with the church where William Samuel Lovell is buried. I believe that William may have been known as Harry.

I was told that he was laid to rest in a family grave of Lovells amongst those members were his younger brother Harold. The family are listed in the Parish records, as to having come from Cornwall.

I am 100% about his children, Charles, Ida, Walter & Alfred!

:-|

Reggie

Reggie Report 23 Jun 2012 09:01

I would have thought it unlikely that William Samuel would be known as 'Harry'

There was - as per an earlier post - a William HENRY whose father was ROBERT

Have you perhaps latched on to the wrong family here?

You must start with a proven fact - and then work back from that. I'm not implying that you haven't - merely that you may have taken a wrong 'turning' which can easily happen

You mention the four 'children' - which of them is your proven direct line?

Reggie

Reggie Report 23 Jun 2012 09:26

The family whose details are posted on this thread do not appear to have any Cornish links - the father was born in Northamptonshire c1834

Susan

Susan Report 23 Jun 2012 10:20

Would this be the other William with father Robert.

1881 England Census
about William Hy. Lovell Name: William Hy. Lovell
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert R. Lovell
Mother's name: Ann Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Ottery St Mary, Devon, England

Civil parish: Ottery St Mary
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address: Sandhill Street
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Honiton
Sub-registration district: Ottery St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2134
Folio: 105
Page Number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
Robert R. Lovell 39 <<<<ag lab
Ann Lovell 39
Martha E. Lovell 15
William Hy. Lovell 12
Susan Reeve Lovell 9
Robert Reeve Lovell 7
Lucy Whitcombe Lovell 4


Reggie

Reggie Report 23 Jun 2012 11:06

In your GR tree, you have an Ida Lovell born 1899 - birthplace unknown.

Is this her?

Births Sep 1898 (>99%)
LOVELL Ida May W.Ham 4a 211
Deaths Mar 1904 (>99%)
LOVELL Ida May 5 Edmonton 3a 274

Reggie

Reggie Report 23 Jun 2012 11:13

I am aware that this census has been posted before

1911 census

Person: LOVELL, William Samuel Address: 6 Railway Terrace Laburnham Grove Ilford

LOVELL, William Samuel Head Married19 years M 43 1868 Boot Repairer Rivetter Middlesex Tottenham VIEW
LOVELL, Louisa Wife Married19 years F 42 1869 Nil Edmonton VIEW
LOVELL, Charles Laurance Augustus Son Single M 16 1895 Outfitter's Errand Lad Essex Stratford VIEW
LOVELL, Walter Robert Son Single M 8 1903 School Middlesex Tottenham VIEW
LOVELL, Alfred Frederick Son Single M 4 1907 Essex Manor Park VIEW RG number: RG14 Piece: 9864 Reference: RG14PN9864 RG78PN521A RD191 SD2 ED15 SN23 Registration District: Romford Sub District: Ilford Enumeration District: 15 Parish: Ilford

SIX children born in marriage - 3 have died

Nina

Nina Report 25 Jun 2012 23:50

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your interest and valued assistance with this :-D

One thing that I am certain of is that the following is 100%

In 1901 he is -

LOVELL, William S Head Married M 32 1869 Boot Maker Tottenham, Middlesex VIEW
LOVELL, Louisa Wife Married F 32 1869 Edmonton, Middlesex VIEW
LOVELL, Lawrance C Son M 5 1896 Stratford, Essex VIEW
LOVELL, Ida M Daughter F 2 1899 Forest Gate, Essex VIEW

Piece: 662
Folio: 133
Page: 38
Registration District: Kingston
Civil Parish: Kingston upon Thames
Municipal Borough:
Address: 43, Somerset Road, Kingston Upon Thames
County: Surrey

However, apart from the 'duplication' of marriage, I was advised by the Chuch (where he is buried) that William S Lovell's family came from Cornwall. Also, the church records in Ilford, show that he is buried with other members of his family, including his younger brother Harold b1875 d1930 Brentwood! :-S

Nina

Nina Report 25 Jun 2012 23:58

Reggie - Ida May was my grandfathers sister and yes I believe that she died around the young age of 5 :-(

Mike *

Mike * Report 26 Jun 2012 00:04

More likely that Harold not William was known as Harry.

As stated earlier, the William Lovell who married Louisa Prophet named his father as Samuel not Robert..

Hence the reason that William had Samuel as his middle name I should imagine.

Nina

Nina Report 26 Jun 2012 00:05

Reggie - I am 100% about his children, Charles, Ida, Walter & Alfred!

My Grandfather is Walter.

Charles, I believe lived in Hainault Forest, Essex and I think Alfred resided in Dagenham, Essex?

Mike *

Mike * Report 26 Jun 2012 00:12

This must be Lawrence from 1901 census

Births Jun 1895
Lovell Charles Lawrence A - W. Ham 4a 38

Mike *

Mike * Report 26 Jun 2012 00:17

Could it be that the grave you mentioned is the wrong William ?

The William Henry ( who could have been known as Harry) and who had a father Robert, was from Devon area ... not a million miles from Cornwall !

Nina

Nina Report 26 Jun 2012 00:49

Point taken Mike! I just googled the Devon town!

Getting too confused at this hour of morning - will have to have a relook on my tree, when I ve got a quiet house :)

One thing is for sure, I need to work out on FreeBMD and other sites how to extract the names of bride/groom parents and other records. The census's are full of info, but as proven by all involved here - you really need to make sure you have the right person each time you find a possible link! :D



Reggie

Reggie Report 26 Jun 2012 08:57

Right.........let's try a different approach

This is HAROLD in 1911

Name: Harold Lovell
Age in 1911: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Penzance, Cornwall
Civil parish: Ilford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address: 22 Pembroke Road, Seven Kings, Ilford, Essex
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: CanvasserPostOffice
Registration district: Romford
Registration District Number: 191
Sub-registration district: Ilford
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Household schedule number: 268
Piece: 9890
Household Members:
Name Age
Harold Lovell 36
Adeline Price Lovell 38
Rebecca White 70

AND in 1881..................


Name: Harold Lovell
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert Lovell
Mother's name: Sarah F. Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Penzance, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Madron - Penzance
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Street Address: Queen Street Penhale House

Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Penzance
Sub-registration district: Penzance
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2347
Folio: 74
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Lovell 51
Sarah F. Lovell 45
Robert C. Lovell 21
Charles Lovell 19
James Lovell 18
Francis Lovell 17
Mary T. Lovell 15
Harry Lovell 11*********************
Frederick Lovell 10
Harold Lovell 6
Rebecca Tregarthen 40


******************1871


Name: Harry Lovell
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert Lovell
Mother's name: Sarah F Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Penzance, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Penzance
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: Penzance
Sub-registration district: Penzance
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Household schedule number: 57
Piece: 2341
Folio: 53
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Lovell 40
Sarah F Lovell 35
Robert C Lovell 11
Crenwill Lovell 9
James G Lovell 8
Francis Lovell 7
Mary T Lovell 5
Harry Lovell 1
Frederick Lovell 1 Month

Reggie

Reggie Report 26 Jun 2012 09:01

1891 for some of the family - including HAROLD

Name: Robert C Lovell
[Robert C Nicholls]
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary T Lovell
[Eliza Lovell]
Mother's name: Sarah F Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Penzance, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Penzance
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: Penzance
Sub-registration district: Penzance
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1859
Folio: 73
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert C Lovell 31
Mary T Lovell 31
Sarah F Lovell 55
Harold Lovell 16
Bessie Beckerleg 27
Eliza Lovell 36
Minnie Lovell 7
Richard A Lovell 4
Sarah Gilbert 56 Mother in Law
Sarah Ann Gilbert 27

Reggie

Reggie Report 26 Jun 2012 09:07

No mention of WILLIAM on his birth reg'n

Births Sep 1869 (>99%)
LOVELL Harry Penzance 5c 304

Reggie

Reggie Report 26 Jun 2012 09:12

You can't get the names of parents from freebmd - it is a transcription of the GRO index, which gives you the necessary info to be able to order the cert(s)

Marriage records in England do not, in any case, include any info about the mothers - only the fathers of the couple marrying are recorded.

Any London marriages which have been posted above are from Ancestry website

Reggie

Reggie Report 26 Jun 2012 09:15

Can't recall if you said when you thought the father of Ida etc died.............

Is this him?

Name: William S Lovell
Birth Date: abt 1868
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1917
Age at Death: 49
Registration district: Romford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 462

This is HAROLD - who you were led to believe (erroneously, in my opinion) was William's 'brother'

Name: Harold Lovell
Birth Date: abt 1875
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1930
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: Billericay
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 567

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name: Harold Lovell
Probate Date: 23 Dec 1930
Death Date: 1 Nov 1930
Death Place: Essex, England
Registry: Bodmin

Harold of Brentwood Mental Hospital - administration(with Will) to Adeline Price Lovell (Widow) Effects £129 6s

Reggie

Reggie Report 27 Jun 2012 08:57

Nina?