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Steel(e) / Thom(p)son Ancestors

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

MaureeninNY

MaureeninNY Report 17 Jul 2012 20:54

I'll try to find him in a second. Just wanted to plop this lot here to look over.

1851 census transcription details for: Baker Street, Orsett
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1773
Folio: 322
Page: 2
Reg. District: Orsett
Sub District: Orsett
Parish: Orsett
Enum. District: 11A
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Baker Street, Orsett
STEEL, Henry Head Married M 35 1816 Lawyer(*sic)
Laindon, Essex
STEEL, Ellen Daughter F 5 1846 Scholar
Stifford, Essex
STEEL, Isabella Wife Married F 32 1819
Scotland
STEEL, George Son M 4 1847
Grays, Essex
STEEL, Eliza Daughter F 1 1850
Orsett, Essex

.............
1861 census transcription details for: 30, Reeve Street, Poplar
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 305
Folio: 138
Page: 56
Reg. District: Poplar
Sub District: 2 Poplar
Parish: Poplar
Enum. District: 5
Ecclesiastical District: All Saints
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 30, Reeve Street, Poplar
County: London
STEELE, Henry Head Married M 40 1821 Sawyer
Ashboro, Buckinghamshire
STEELE, Isabella Wife Married F 46 1815
Roxburgh, Scotland
>>STEELE, George H Son M 14 1847
..., Essex
STEELE, Eliza A Daughter F 11 1850
Orsett, Essex
STEELE, Hannah Daughter F 9 1852
Ownham, Essex
STEELE, Isabella B Daughter F 7 1854
Bromley, Middlesex
STEELE, Alice S Daughter F 4 1857
Bromley, Middlesex
STEELE, Henrietta Daughter F 0 (5M) 1861
Poplar, Middlesex
CANNON, Matilda Visitor Widow F 39 1822 Tailoress
Spittalfield, Middlesex
CANNON, Richard Visitor M 2 1859
Poplar, Middlesex
CANNON, Joseph Visitor M 4 1857
Poplar, Middlesex


Maureen

ChristinaS

ChristinaS Report 17 Jul 2012 20:49

His 2nd marriage is on the London Marriages as well. 1878 to Isabella (I forget the surname, and I've come off it now).

No helpful witnesses though.

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 17 Jul 2012 20:41

Maureen

Thank you - I found the 1851 but could not find the 1861! I see it is because I forgot they like to add a 'p' to their name now and then. What is the reference for William in 1881 please?

Thank you

Janet

MaureeninNY

MaureeninNY Report 17 Jul 2012 20:27

I'll just put these here...

1861 census transcription details for: 2, James Place, Poplar
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 307
Folio: 39
Page: 33
Reg. District: Poplar
Sub District: 2 Poplar
Parish: Poplar
Enum. District: 14
Ecclesiastical District: All Saints
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 2, James Place, Poplar
County: London
THOMPSON, Eliza Head Widow F 54 1807 Dressmaker
??, Kent
THOMPSON, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 16 1845 Dressmaker
St Georges, Middlesex
THOMPSON, William Son M 14 1847 Engineers Ap
Bromley, Middlesex
ADAMS, Jane Lodger Unmarried F 40 1821 Fund Holder
Ratcliff, Middlesex
,,,,,,,,,,
1851 census transcription details for: 7, Tetley Street, Poplar, Tower Hamlets
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1556
Folio: 394
Page: 33
Reg. District: Poplar
Sub District: Poplar
Parish: Poplar
Enum. District: 19
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Tower Hamlets
Address: 7, Tetley Street, Poplar, Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

THOMSON, William Head Married M 44 1807 Rigger
Scotland
THOMSON, Eliza Wife Married F 44 1807
Chatham, Kent
THOMSON, Mary A Daughter F 6 1845 At Home
St George East, Middlesex
THOMSON, William Son M 4 1847 At Home
Bromley, Middlesex


I can't see ANYONE other than son William in 1881!!!!!

Maureen

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 17 Jul 2012 20:25

Well that is more information than I had when I posted this earlier today.

I can check the 1851 and 1861 - at last I have something to put in the Thomson section of my files and my Thomson branch in my tree.

Thanks

Janet

ChristinaS

ChristinaS Report 17 Jul 2012 20:09

May Ann Thom(p)son's brother William got married in 1871 - it's on the London Marriages. But, unfortunately, both the witnesses were from the bride's side of the family.

Also unfortunate, is that it looks like his wife died 2 years later.

ChristinaS

ChristinaS Report 17 Jul 2012 20:07

On the 1871 census Henrietta Steele was born in Bromley, so she would be the Poplar one.

Eliza Thom(p)son is in Poplar on the 1861 and 1851 censuses. Both born 1807.

A widow in 1861 but with her husband William on the 1851 one.

If I could copy& paste properly I'd do so for you, but afraid I can't. Despite numerous explanations of how to.

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 17 Jul 2012 19:57

No - annoying isn't it, MaureeninNY had tried and like you found Henrietta, I tried, and like you found nothing, think I have found a possible birth for her

Civil registration event: Birth

Name:STEELE, Henrietta
Registration district: [?]Poplar
County:London
Year of registration:1870
Quarter of registration:Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name:Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no:[?] 1C
Page no:[?]655

There is another possible in Portsea Island, same year, but is Henrietta Maria, so have noted it (as I found the baptism for Henry George Steel in Portsea) but am inclined to stick with the Poplar district.

I was just looking at the image of the 1871 Census MaureeninNy posted - it has some interesting points I can follow up - Eliza A Thomson (grandmother of Henrietta) and also Mary A E Steele (mother of Henrietta) are both shown under occupation as "Needlewoman"

Something else, a bit 'strange' - when I search for Eliza Thomson on the 1871 - I get two - Eliza and Eliza A - both born in Kent but on two different Census records, identical birth year BUT one is staying in a Public House in Kent and there appears to be a William Thomson (also the name of someone I am looking for - possibly witness to the marriage of Thomson to Steel) there but I cannot get a full list - I can see him on the image but not on the transcript! Very strange

Oooh they are elusive ancestors! :-S

ChristinaS

ChristinaS Report 17 Jul 2012 19:36

This could be Mary Ann Eliza's daughter (probable half-sister of Eliza)

Henrietta Steele - born about 1870 - died Ap-Jun 1888 - Poplar


If so, she should be on the 1881 census, but I can't find her either.

ChristinaS

ChristinaS Report 17 Jul 2012 19:26

Yes, I'm sure MaurreninNY's 1871 census is the correct one for the Mary Ann Eliza Thomson who married George Henry Steele.

They can be followed back to 1851 when the father William Thomson is still alive. So that all fits together nicely.

The trouble is connecting Eliza to that particular family. Even though it looks pretty likely, it would be nice to have a little bit more evidence.

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 17 Jul 2012 19:09

Hi ChristinaS

The two families are only tied together at the Robert William Smith / Eliza Ann Steel marriage in 1904 - but if I try to find Eliza (product of Thomson/Steel) prior to that in 1881 or 1891 then like you there appears to be (so far) absolutely nothing. That is why I had the idea that the marriage cert for her parents (Steel and Thomson) in 1865 would give me more to work on - still absolutely nothing.

Except MaureeninNY's 1871 Census post at 15:56 today which has a Steel/Thomson combination (the rest of this post was overtaken by Smiths - we're like that).

Janet

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 17 Jul 2012 19:00

(Ooh yes, FMP Death says 3, clearer image than FreeBMD!)

Can you make out the Witness names on your Eliza 1904 Marriage, could they hold a clue?...(not clear on Ancestry image)

Chris :)

edits (sorry Christina, hadn't read back!, but that Maureens find looks interesting!)

ChristinaS

ChristinaS Report 17 Jul 2012 18:46

So, we still need to tie the two families together.

I've tried every combination I can think of to find Eliza on the 1881 and 1891 censuses (and I'm sure the other helpers have tried too). But I just can't see her.

Or maybe she has been found, and I missed that bit. Has she?

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 17 Jul 2012 18:38

Chris

Just updated my tree with 2 Reubens and looked on FMP - the death in 1905 shows as aged 3 - which makes him Robert and Eliza's son aka my great uncle (deceased)

Civil registration event: Death

Name:SMITH, Reuben John
Registration district: [?]Woolwich
County:London
Year of registration:1905
Quarter of registration:Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death:3
Volume no:1D
Page no:718

Thanks also for the info on a Reuben John being a witness on the marriage - Eliza to a James Darby perchance? So as far as I can see the only Reuben John managing to live long enough is the Reuben John married to Eliza (Branch) Smith - unless of course the other brother Henry George (who was the eldest of the 3 brothers - my g granddad in the middle) managed to have a son called Reuben John, who lived and attended the marriage!

Just realised these SMITHS have overtaken my STEEL/THOMSON thread - but nevertheless have got lots of information I didn't have before - all named Reuben John Smith - and all mine - whether close or not.

Yes Sick Asylum / St Andrew's Hospital was (or a least connected to) a workhouse. I actually went to view the records for the couple of years prior to 1904 to see why Eliza (Steel) Smith was there - no record of her in 1904, but did find Robert there not long before the marriage and one of the other children there a year or so after - know it was them as the address was Thomas Street. Maybe Robert was sick, Reuben John (toddler) died and they thought it was time to get married. Might need to get the 1905 death cert at some point - see who he was with in Woolwich.

Janet

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 17 Jul 2012 18:02

Lol, would say the 1904 Death was 1903 Birth (the other couple)

But not sure who 1905 Death belongs too, age 2, as can't see another Birth...and a Reuben John is witness on 1915 Marriage you mentioned....

Grief eh?...

Poplar Sick Asylum looks like a workhouse (from a quick look on google)

Chris :)

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 17 Jul 2012 17:12

Chris

I have just looked again at the births/deaths of the Reuben John Smiths - and have confused myself as I can't get the death ages to agree with births - but nevertheless it may clear up another mystery. I always wondered why, when they got married in 1904 Eliza Ann (Steel) Smith's residence was shown as being in the Sick Asylum - that could be the reason - if she lost a child.

The other Eliza married to Reuben seems to have lost 8!

Janet

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 17 Jul 2012 16:56

Sad and a 1903 birth/ 1905 death for Reuben John and Eliza (nee Branch) Smith.

Quite interesting that it is registered in Woolwich because I have Reuben and Eliza (why do my family not only have the name smith but also the same first names in a lot of instances!) with another son Henry George (another recycled name or two) on the 1911 Census and they are all born Poplar.

I do know that Robert William (great grandfather) and Reuben John (the brother) were the sons of a William who WAS born in Woolwich - and a Mariner - and there was another brother who was of course named Henry George! Still can put anotehrr tick by Woolwich on the list of places to research.

Janet

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 17 Jul 2012 16:43

Births Dec 1901 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------------(Yours)
SMITH Reuben John Poplar 1c 599

(then below)

---------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1903 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
SMITH Reuben John Poplar 1c 634

Deaths Mar 1904 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Smith Reuben John 1 Poplar 1c 379


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Reuben John Smith
Name: Reuben John Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1903 (20th Feb.)
Baptism Date: 11 Mar 1903
Father's Name: Reuben John Smith
Mother's name: Eliza Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Gabriel, Chrisp Street
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

(then)

Deaths Dec 1905 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Smith Reuben John 2 Woolwich 1d 718


Chris :)

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 17 Jul 2012 16:25

Chris

Thank you - so this must be the dead child - between George c1899 and Thomas c1907. It makes sense as Robert William (my great grandfather) had a brother called Reuben (Ruben).

That means Eliza c1895 on 1901 Census was just 'missing' in 1911 and also they miscounted their children on the 1911 showing 5 born and 1 died!

Janet

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 17 Jul 2012 16:06

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Reuben John Smith
Name: Reuben John Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1901 (1st Nov 1901)
Baptism Date: 1 Dec 1901
Father's Name: Robert William Smith
Mother's name: Eliza Ann Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: Poplar St Andrew
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

(address as 1901)

Chris :)