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John Scott

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 6 Sep 2012 23:12

Thanks Moody Blue,
It was more of an elimination exercise
I knew the deceased wasn't Ann Scott ms Sagar but couldn't find her other names.

James, did you find James and Anne Clusker on the 1911 census in Fife?
If so, what was Anne's place of birth?
From a search on SP, I can see 3 Clusker children born in Fife.
John b 1911, Anne Elizabeth b 1912 and James b 1916

Anne

OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 7 Sep 2012 03:56


Hi Anne,

The 3 Clusker children John b 1911, Anne Elizabeth b 1912 and James b 1916 born in Fife, are my Uncle John, my Aunt Betty, and my dad.

The 1911 Census Extract I think says that my grandmother was born in the USA and that she was a British/American citizen but I may be reading that wrong, also they appear to have lived in a house of multiple occupation.

Regards,

James Clusker

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 7 Sep 2012 11:41

This is simply an obseration.
On that 1901 census which possibly identifies John Scott as a boarder in Auchtertool.
He is boarding with a family called Winning. where head of household John Winning and his wife Mary are both from Lanarkshire.
However, most of their children were also born in the US between 1884 and 1890

Helen

Helen Report 7 Sep 2012 12:10

Just out of interest, does it mention on the marriage certificate if John Scott is still alive or deceased at the time of his daughter's marriage.







OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 7 Sep 2012 13:49

Thanks Anne,

I have been looking at immigration lists, I did a free search for arrivals between 1880-1900. I think it was either FindMyPast or Ancestry.com for an Anne Elizabeth Scott and the name Scott came up. I wish I could remember which site it was and what search criteria I used:(

If you recall earlier in the thread the name Segar came, from what I could see on the small preview image the name Scott was preceded by the names Charles and Sophia Segar, coincidence I wonder?

Helen,

On my grandmothers marriage certificate John Scoyy is shown as being alive at that time and his wife Anne Elizabeth Scott whose maiden name we think is Segar is shown as deceased,

Regards,

James Clusker

OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 7 Sep 2012 16:06

Hi Anne and Moody Blue,

On the mariage certificate my grndmother's mother is definitely Ann Elzxabeth Scott nee Sagar (deceasd)

My grandfather at the time of their marriage lived at 35 Landale Terrace Auchtertool and my grandmother lived at Thistleford Farm Cottage Auchtertool and I would have thought that possibly her father John Scott lived in Auchtertool as well.

Working my way through all these Sagar's at the moment, the saga of the Sagar's one might say.

Regards,

James Clusker

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 7 Sep 2012 16:29

It doesn't really help, but this is Thistleford Farm and the cottage at 1901

1901 Scotland Census
about Andrew Cunningham
Name: Andrew Cunningham
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Kinghorn, fifeshire
Registration Number: 407
Registration district: Auchtertool
Civil parish: Auchtertool
County: Fife
Address: Thistleford Cottar House
Occupation: Ploughman
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 34
Line: 11
Roll: CSSCT1901_130
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Cunningham 60
William Cunningham 37

1901 Scotland Census
about William Gorrie
Name: William Gorrie
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Janet Gorrie
Gender: Male
Where born: Logiealmond, Perthshire
Registration Number: 407
Registration district: Auchtertool
Civil parish: Auchtertool
County: Fife
Address: Farm House
Occupation: Farmer
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 35
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1901_130
Household Members: Name Age
William Gorrie 60
Janet Gorrie 63
Anne Gorrie 35
Maggie Gorrie 29
Lizzie Gorrie 15
Alexander Gorrie 22
John Gorrie 33
Alexr Mcneil 62
Isabella Mcfarlane 38


I think we need to look at the 1911 fiche instead

OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 7 Sep 2012 16:47

Hello Anne,

I think that the address Thistleford Farm Cottage could be misleading because let's say, if the question that was asked was, where do you live and my grandmother maybe replied, the cottage at Thistleford Farm, so the registrar wrote that down as Thistleford Farm Cottage.

I know that area of Fife quite well, because when I lived in Scotland I used to travel over that way quite often, and many of the farmsin that area have numerous cottages.

Regards Jim

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 8 Sep 2012 14:07

James ..This may help clarify the Scott dilema.....

James Clusker sailed on the Calendonia out of Glasgow to NY arriving Aug 3 1913...

James stated he was going to an uncle Daniel Sager..Williamsburg PA
.
Elizabeth and both younger children (John and Eliz) sailed out with her on the Califonia arriving NY 15 Dec 1913 and stated she was going to join her husband
Her place of Birth was given as (looks like Buenavista PA)
Her NOK in Scotland was her father John Scott No.4 ?? Lonsdale/Langdale Tce Cowdenbeath...you need to try and check that with a Cowdenbeath street map for clarity.

The address in Williamsburg Pa as best I can decifer it is 628 Moflands St.

I was always under the impression WilliamsBurg was in Virginia not Pennsylvania but it maybe the transcription is something like Wilinsburg...???

OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 8 Sep 2012 15:44

Eringobragh1916, thanks for that, it would be 35 Landale Terrace in Cowdenbeath, that is the place of residence my grandfather gives on the marriage certificate.

They are also shown on the 1911 Census after their marriage as living at 62 Arthur Place Cowdenbeath

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 8 Sep 2012 17:54

James, the address that John Scott was living in 1901 with the Winning family was
4 Landale Terrace (see previous page)


OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 8 Sep 2012 18:43

Moody Blue,

There are two Landale Terraces, John Scott lived at the one in Auctertool and my grandfather gave the one in Cowdenbeath as his place of residence on his marriage certificate.

Jim

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 8 Sep 2012 18:55

Elizabeth Clusker returned to Scotland with the two children John & Elizabeth


UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 about Elez Clusker
Name: Elez Clusker
Birth Date: abt 1891
Age: 24
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 2 Aug 1915
Port of Arrival: Glasgow, Scotland
Ship Name: Tuscania
Search Ship Database: View the 'Tuscania' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Anchor Line
Official Number: 137785

address 35 Landale Terrace Cowdenbeath
says all 3 born USA


Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 8 Sep 2012 19:10

Elizabeth's brother Daniel......(uncle Daniel)



U.S. World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942 about Daniel Marion Sager
Name: Daniel Marion Sager
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1879
>>>>>>>Birth Place: Buena Vista, Pennsylvania
Residence: 53 Vankirk St. Clainton Allegheny, Pennsylvania
Age:62

Occupation:not employed

Nearest Relative:

Height/Build: 5'7" weight 152

Color of Eyes/Hair: light complexion, hazel eyes, Gray hair bald

Signature:

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 8 Sep 2012 19:21

This is the Sagar family!!!



1870 United States Federal Census about Samuel Sager
Name: Samuel Sager
Age in 1870: 39
Birth Year: abt 1831
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1870: Elizabeth, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
Race: White
Gender: Male
Post Office: Elizabeth
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Sager 39 Tinner
Malinda Sager 21 Keeping House
Elizabeth Sager 4
Eli Sager 26



1880 United States Federal Census about Daniel Sager
Name: Daniel Sager
Age: 7m
Birth Year: abt 1879
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1880: Elizabeth, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: Samuel Sager
Father's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Mother's Name: Jane Sager
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: At Home
Cannot read/write:

Blind:

Deaf and dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Sager 50 Grocer
Jane Sager 30
>>>>>>>>>Elizabeth Sager 14
Samuel Sager 8
Henry Sager 5
Angiline Sager 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>Daniel Sager 7m

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 8 Sep 2012 20:45


James... I wonder if this is a relative of John's/Elizabeths...His death is on the Auchtertool Kirk Memorial and gives his place of birth as Pennsylvania..just seems a bit of a coincidence that the Surname place of Birth and his living in Langdale Tce appears to correspond with Eliz.

SCOTT, ALEXANDER
Rank:SerjeantService
No:16524
Date of Death:30/05/1916
Age:34
Regiment/Service:Royal Scots "C" Coy. 13th Bn.
Grave ReferenceIV. C. 41.CemeteryVERMELLES BRITISH CEMETERY
Additional Information:

Husband of Jane Scott, of 7, Landale Terrace, Cowdenbeath, Fife.

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 8 Sep 2012 20:59


1900 United States Federal Census about Anna E Scott
Name: Anna E Scott
Age: 8
Birth Date: Jul 1892
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1900: Elizabeth, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
[Allegheny]
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Granddaughter
Marital Status: Single
Father's Birthplace: Scotland
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Sager 68 born Pennsylvania, Merchant
Malinda J Sager 50 born Pennsylvania (father born Germany)
Henry Sager 25 coal miner
Daniel Sager 20 mine labourer
Anna E Scott 8


Original says about Anna E Scott:-

born Pennsylvania, father born Scotland, mother born Pennsylvania

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 8 Sep 2012 21:05

Excellent find Moody Blue...!!

Hope James doesnt want to be after chasing the father of Malinda J Sagar..!!!

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 8 Sep 2012 21:20

I would leave that to you Eringobragh lol


It was your find that led me on to this. You are very good . :-)

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 8 Sep 2012 21:28

Well following on from your find have at last found the Marriage..!!!

Took some doing but here you are James.....St Patricks Day !!!

Name: John Scott :
Event: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Mar 1887
Event Place: Allegheny Co, Pennsylvania, United States
Spouse: Lizzie Sager

James the other details on the "Marriage Docket" gace John place of Birth as Scotland and looks like Feb or Oct 1865 He was living /working in Elizabeth Township as a Miner.

Lizzie's was same address Consent given by her Father to marriage...neither stated a previous marriage.
Lizzie b May 1866
Rev Wm Reid performed the ceremony doesnt indicate if it was RC/Kirk?