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John Scott

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 9 Sep 2012 19:33

James,
As we now know that your great grandmother was Lizzie Sager, daughter of Samuel and Melinda Sager, I thought I could find him on US censuses prior to his marriage.
There were 2 men called Samuel Sager with similar profiles, one married Malinda the other's wife was called Eve/ Elizabeth.
I know that I have located the correct one, due to his younger brother who was called ELI. (Elias)

Your gg grandfather, Samuel Sager was the son of Peter and Eliza Sager

1850 United States Federal Census
about Samuel Sager
Name: Samuel Sager
Age: 18
Birth Year: abt 1832
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1850: Sewickley, Westmoreland, Pennsylvania
Gender: Male
Family Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Sager 42
Elizabeth Sager 38
Henry Sager 21
Samuel Sager 18 ****
Harrison Sager 16
Daniel Sager 14
Alexander Sager 12
Eli Sager 10 ***
George Sager 8
Peter Sager 5
William E Sager 1

1860 United States Federal Census
about Samuel Sager
Name: Samuel Sager
[Samuel Lager]
Age in 1860: 28
Birth Year: abt 1832
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1860: Sewickley, Westmoreland, Pennsylvania
Gender: Male
Post Office: Watts Mills
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Sager 51
Eliza Sager 49
Samuel Sager 28 ****
Daniel Sager 24
Alexander Sager 22
Eli Sager 19 ****
George Sager 17
Peter Sager 13
William Sager 10
Elvina Sager 8

Samuel Sager will have married Malinda circa 1865
1870 United States Federal Census
about Samuel Sager
Name: Samuel Sager
Age in 1870: 39
Birth Year: abt 1831
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1870: Elizabeth, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
Race: White
Gender: Male
Post Office: Elizabeth
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Sager 39 ***
Malinda Sager 21
Elizabeth Sager 4
Eli Sager 26 ****

The 1880 and 1900 census are already posted

1910 United States Federal Census
about Malinda J Sager
Name: Malinda J Sager
Age in 1910: 61
Birth Year: 1849
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1910: Elizabeth, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Head
[Self (Head)]
Marital Status: Widowed
Father's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Malinda J Sager 61
Jennie Miller 16 grand daughter

Anne












Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 9 Sep 2012 20:05

Anne ...You have done better than me there...found 1870 with Eli but coudnt find ..Marriage of Malinda J or variations to a Samuel Segar..thought I might dip my toe in the water to find her Fathers name..(her maiden name) Couldnt find a Birth either...searched 1830 onwards.....just using Malinda Jane ,,variations...>>>

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 9 Sep 2012 20:56

Hi Eringobragh,
I can't find a marrige either for Samuel and Melinda.
The 1880 census is definitely correct, but even on the image she looks like JANE age 30

As for Samuels parents....
OK, he does appear on all the censuses from 1850 onwards with Peter and Eliza(beth) but I can only find births for this couple from 1840 onwards.

No birth or baptism for:
Henry Sager bc 1828
Samuel Sager bc 1832
Harrison Sager bc 1834
Daniel Sager bc 1836
Alexander Sager bc 1838

name:Elias Seger
gender:Male
event: Christening
event date: 15 May 1841
event place:SEANORS OR ST PAUL LUTHERAN CHURCH,HEMPFIELD TWP,WESTMORELAND,PENNSYLVANIA
birth date: 15 Sep 1840
father's name: Peter Seger
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number:C50498-1
system origin: Pennsylvania-ODM


name:George Seger
gender: Male
event: Christening
event date: 09 Jul 1843
event place: SEANORS OR ST PAUL LUTHERAN CHURCH,HEMPFIELD TWP,WESTMORELAND,PENNSYLVANIA
birth date: 22 May 1843
father's name: Peter Seger
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C50498-1
system origin: Pennsylvania-ODM
source film number: 974.881 K2FD


name: Peter Seger
gender: Male
event: Christening
event date: 09 May 1847
event place: SEANORS OR ST PAUL LUTHERAN CHURCH,HEMPFIELD TWP,WESTMORELAND,PENNSYLVANIA
birth date: 01 May 1847
father's name: Peter Seger
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C50498-1
system origin: Pennsylvania-ODM
source film number: 974.881 K2FD


name: Wm. Emery Seger
gender: Male
event: Christening
event date: 30 Sep 1849
event place: SEANORS OR ST PAUL LUTHERAN CHURCH,HEMPFIELD TWP,WESTMORELAND,PENNSYLVANIA
birth date: 25 Jun 1849
father's name: Peter Seger
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C50498-1
system origin: Pennsylvania-ODM
source film number: 974.881 K2FD



name: Levina Jane Sager ( mistranscribed as Elvina in 1860)
gender: Female
event: Christening
event date: 29 Aug 1852
event place: SEANORS OR ST PAUL LUTHERAN CHURCH,HEMPFIELD TWP,WESTMORELAND,PENNSYLVANIA
birth date: 01 Apr 1852
father's name: Peter Sager
mother's name: Eliza
indexing project (batch) number: C50498-1
system origin: Pennsylvania-ODM
source film number: 974.881 K2FD

I forgot to ask... did anyone send the marriage cert to James?
The 1887 one for John Scott and Lizzie Segar
( their dob's are on it, and Lizzie's father IS Samuel)

Anne






Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 9 Sep 2012 21:42

Yes I sent the Link page for the entry yesterday..Told James if he couldnt access it then I would sent alternative way..he obviously managed to get it as he hasnt said otherwise...

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 9 Sep 2012 22:21

Have just had a thought....have been searching for a Malinda J or J Malinda..??
marriage to Sam Segar....well heres betting her name was Jane "Malinda".Doh..!!

Will look for Malinda/variations as a surname.



GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 9 Sep 2012 22:30

Does anyone use Ancestry?
Some random person worked their way through so many of these census returns and added an amendment.
Changed everyone's name from Sager to Lager because that's what he/she read on an earlier census.... What is that all about?

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 9 Sep 2012 22:39

No Anne..I leave them alone as I try to use as near Primary Source as possible for the reason you mention among others....As you know it takes more than a skilled eye to read documents and often they get mistranscribed /amended due to a letter of the alphabet written nearly 200 yrs ago being misread/interpreted...

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 10 Sep 2012 00:09

My word, this thread is growing so much that I cant keep up with what's been found and what hasn't

Walter Scott b 1872 PA. Son of Walter Scott and Isabella Mark
( This leaves only a 2yr window before the next child Allan was born in Lanarkshire)
Walter returned to PA with his family in 1879 and back to Scotland in 1892

Walter Scott married Jane McCue in Beath 1899

1901 Scotland Census
about Walter Scott
Name: Walter Scott
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jame Scott
Gender: Male
Where born: b s, America **
Registration Number: 410
Registration district: Beath
Civil parish: Beath
County: Fife
Address: 19 School St
Occupation: Coal Miner
ED: 9
Household schedule number: 196
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1901_131
Household Members: Name Age
Walter Scott 29
Jame Scott 25 b Holytown Lanarkshire
Jans Moyes 18 (Boarder)

I guess this is Jane.......

1881 Scotland Census
about Jane McCue
Name: Jane McCue
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: Michael McCue
Mother's Name: Jane McCue
Gender: Female
Where born: Holytown, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 652/1
Registration district: Old Monkland Western District
Civil parish: Old Monkland Western District
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 12 Braehead Quarry Row
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 72
Line: 12
Roll: cssct1881_265
Household Members: Name Age
Michael McCue 37
Jane McCue 33
James McCue 14
Thomas McCue 12
John McCue 9
Jane McCue 5
Michael McCue 2

1891 Scotland Census
about Michael McCue
Name: Michael McCue
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jane McCue
[Isabella McKinlay]
Gender: Male
Where born: Campsie, Stirling
Registration Number: 405
Registration district: Auchterderran
Civil parish: Auchterderran
County: Fife
Address: 39 Graingers Street
Occupation: Coal Miner
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 187
Line: 24
Roll: CSSCT1891_123
Household Members: Name Age
Michael McCue 47
Jane McCue 43
James McCue 22
Thomas McCue 20
Jane McCue 15
Elizabeth McCue 6
Michael McCue 2

Look where Jane's parents lived at 1901. It must be mining housing

1901 Scotland Census
about Michael Mccue
Name: Michael Mccue
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jane Mccue
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 407
Registration district: Auchtertool
Civil parish: Auchtertool
County: Fife
Address: *** 2 Landale Ter ***
Occupation: Coal Miner
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 3
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1901_130
Household Members: Name Age
Michael Mccue 56
Jane Mccue 53
Lizzie Mccue 16
Michael Mccue 12










Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 10 Sep 2012 07:22

Anne...It was very often the norm rather than the exception in the Mining Communities...find one family and the others members and extended family will be near bye.

I am goig to go through all the "finds today and see whats missing to connect some dots...

Anna Scott's death for starters but Melinda Jane or vice versa has me stumped at the moment...
There are some Malinda "Surnames" but havent been able to relate them to a "Jane"....
She was of ? German descent on her fathers side but I note the last Record for her shows father and mother b PA...
Given that the 1870 Census shows her to be aged 21 and Eliz. daughter aged 4 it only gives a very narrow window for the marriage to Sam..(presuming they had already married.)
That being said I did a wide sweep of area and years before and after the 1860s..

Maybe Moody Blue can see something with a fresh pair of eyes...

Morning James....!!

OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 10 Sep 2012 08:49

Morning Eringobragh1916 and Anne,

I am struggling just trying to keep up with what has been found

James Clusker

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 10 Sep 2012 08:54

Last night, I looked for marriages for other children of Walter Scott and Isabella Mark

Allan Scott b 1875 married Jessie George in Auchtertool in 1894

1901 Scotland Census about Walter Scott
Name: Walter Scott
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Allan Scott
Mother's Name: Jessie Scott
Gender: Male
Where born: Auchtertool, fifeshire
Registration Number: 647
Registration district: Hamilton
Civil parish: Hamilton
Town: Hamilton
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 47s Widsor St
ED: 24
Household schedule number: 229
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1901_339
Household Members:
Name Age
Allan Scott 27
Jessie Scott 28
Walter Scott 5
Jessie Scott Ud 1 Mo

OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 10 Sep 2012 09:19

Help - I am struggling trying to work out how these two fit into the picture, because at present I have Adam's parents as an Allan Mark & Isabella ??? both circa 1795.

And this will be Adam's parents and siblings including brother Thomas who immigrated to PA and on the US census of 1870 ( same wife and kids)
Therefore Thomas Mark was the uncle of Falter's wife, Isabella Scott ms Mark

1841 Scotland Census about Allan Mark
Name: Allan Mark
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1795
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Civil parish: Bothwell Holytown
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Carfin
Occupation: Coal M
Parish Number: 625
Household Members:
Name Age
Allan Mark 46
Isabella Mark 45
Alexander Mark 19
Elizabeth Mark 16
James Mark 14
Thomas Mark 11**
Janet Mark 8
Mary Mark 5
Elizabeth Chery 86

1851 Scotland Census about Thomas Mark
Name: Thomas Mark
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Allan Mark
Mother's Name: Isabella Mark
Gender: Male
Where born: Shotts, Lanark
Parish Number: 628
Civil parish: Cambusnethan
Town: Wishaw
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Low Wishaw
Occupation: coal miner
ED: 5
Page: 39 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 142
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1851_150
Household Members:
Name Age
Allan Mark 59
Isabella Mark 57
Thomas Mark 20**
Mary Mark 15
Jean Mark 12
Ellen Mark 9

James :-(

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 10 Sep 2012 09:41

Hi James

They are your direct ancestors.

Start with:
Walter Scott married ISABELLA MARK
ISABELLA's parents were ADAM MARK and MARY PHILLIP.

The people listed above are ADAM MARK's parents,.
They were:
ALLAN MARK and ISABEL(LA) BROWN ( on census return on your post)

When I found Walter Scott in the US in 1870, he was living with his wife's paternal uncle. This was Thomas Mark from above return, marked **

Anne

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 10 Sep 2012 09:56

James...Whats with your family and PA..!!

Just to mix everything up..Remember Joseph Clusker..(who could forget him..!!) Well on his docs for Mountjoy 1911 (Drunk..!!) he was stated to be born Co Meath but US resident..aka James.

Dont worry about keeping up..I lost the will to live at 2am ....

Going back to Eliz Sagar Scott's parents..I agree with Anne they are Peter and Eliz. however I am after thinking..(not good on a Monday morning) that they may originally of German/Prussian/Czec. origin..thats for another century.

OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 10 Sep 2012 10:10

Hi Anne,

So Thomas was Adam's brother, and Adam's father Allan must have had two aitional children between the 1941 census and the1851 census, these being Jean Mark age 12 and Ellen Mark 9, what is puzzling me is where was Jean Mark age 12 at the time of the 1841 census?

James

OneFootInTheGrave

OneFootInTheGrave Report 10 Sep 2012 10:27

Eringobragh1916

Whats with your family and PA ???

So far Joseph is the only reprobate that has come to light so far, but I am sure there will be a few more,the Irish and their Guinness is to blame :-)

James

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 10 Sep 2012 11:06

James, just wait til you see Bernard Cluskers army records.....boy, did he like the black stuff or something lol !!!

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 10 Sep 2012 12:09

Well I wait in anticipation for James to share eventually.....!! But we prevaricate...
James it may be that the ages of Jean and Ellen /Mary 1851 Census were just not correct..

The probability of 2 Allan Mark b England married to an Isabelle and having the same named children is negligble I would think....

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 10 Sep 2012 12:46

Help!! Who are we looking for now? Afraid I am getting lost in this thread ! Please Eringobragh1916, Anne,Helen or James put me on track again :-S :-0 :-)

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 10 Sep 2012 12:52

Moody Blue....
As far as I can follow ...

James was looking at the 1841 and 1851 census posted above by Anne and subsequently himself to try and figure out the family connection of the Mark Family...yes I know..(had to go there times a plenty to figure where I was )..

Walter Scott married Isabelle MARK daughter of Adam MARK son of Thomas MARK.....(I think)