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The mystery of Lillie-no longer-now seeking Fursey

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 15:46

Can anyone help me to find the birth of Lillie Jane Fursey who married George Hayward in December 1911 in Hounslow Middlesex? I have searched for Lily, Lilian, Lillian, Elizabeth, Eliza, Jane and anything else that she could remotely have been named. According to the marriage cert, she was 20 and a spinster. Family resources have her birthday as 7/9/1891. A complete blank so far!

Her father is shown on the marriage cert as Thomas Neller Fursey who was also one of the witnesses. However, Thomas Neller (not Fursey) married Jane Fursey in May 1918 - seven years after Lillie's marriage.

The help of any bored genius who happens to read this would be greatly appreciated!

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 24 Sep 2012 15:54

???

Lily Fursse
England and Wales Census, 1911
birth: London Middlesex,? London
census: 1911 St John At Hackney,? Hackney N E,? London,? England


name: Lily Fursse
event: Census
event date: 1911
gender: Female
age: 17
birthplace: London Middlesex, London
record type: Household
registration district: Hackney
sub-district: Central Hackney
parish: St John At Hackney
county: London

Andrew

Andrew Report 24 Sep 2012 15:56

1911 census mistranscribed??

1911 England Census
about Lily Heller
Name: Lily Heller
Age in 1911: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Hounslow Heath, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Heston
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: 29 Hayes Cottages, Holloway St, Hounslow
Marital Status: Single
Registration district: Brentford
Registration District Number: 128
Sub-registration district: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 151
Piece: 6828
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Heller 48
Jane Heller 48
Lily Heller 19




Andy

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 24 Sep 2012 15:56

???

Lilian Fursse
England and Wales Census, 1911
birth: London Hackney,? London
census: 1911 St John At Hackney,? ,? London,? England


name: Lilian Fursse
event: Census
event date: 1911
gender: Female
age: 12
birthplace: London Hackney, London
record type: Household
registration district: Hackney
sub-district: South West Hackney
parish: St John At Hackney
county: London

Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 16:02

Thank you Ann. I had looked at Lilian Fursse, but decided she was too young in 1911 (unless she lied about her age to get married). I think you have the right one though, Andrew, the address on the marriage cert is 29 Holloway Street. That explains why I couldn't find her on the 1911 at least. Now I know that Thomas, Jane and Lillie were indeed living together before both marriages - well done!

Now all I need is to find her birth.............

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 24 Sep 2012 16:19

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Lilian May Weller
Name: Lilian May Weller
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 17 Mar 1895
Father's Name: Thomas Weller
Mother's Name: Jane Weller
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St Philip
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 16:30

That's an interesting one Mel - the only thing that gives me pause is that the marriage cert shows her as Lillie Jane, not May. Not sure how much weight I should give that though.

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 24 Sep 2012 16:45

I think she probably took her mothers name as her second name.

Have you got the marriage cert?

jansmith

jansmith Report 24 Sep 2012 16:56

for info same family 1911 on FMP but Neller!

Reg. District: Brentford
Sub District: Isleworth
Parish: Heston
Enum. District: 23
Address: 29 Holloway St Hounslow
County: Middlesex
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
NELLER, Thomas Head Married M 48 1863 Laborer Harlington Middx
NELLER, Jane Wife Married
24 years F 48 1863 Hounslow Heath Middx
NELLER, Lily Daughter Single F 19 1892 Hounslow Heath Middx

Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 17:03

Hello Mel

Yes I have:
24 Dec 1911
Lillie Jane Fursey
age 20 Spinster
29 Holloway Street
Father: Thomas Neller Fursey, salesman

Thanks to Andrew, I now know that Thomas and Jane were living together as man and wife in 1911 ( I think it's definitely Neller not Heller), but haven't managed to find them in 1901 or 1891 yet. In 1881 he was 16 and still living with his parents. According to the family, Lillie's birthday was in September, so the 1891 probably won't show her.

Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 17:10

Hello Jansmith. Yes that's definitely them in 1911. I think Doncaster is a bit out of the way though, Thomas was born in Harlington, near Hounslow and his marriage was in the same area (although I don't have a certificate for that one - another family member has it)

I should just mention that I am researching this family for my grandchildren, but it's my ex-husbands family and another family member has already done some work, so I don't want to tread on anyone's toes by asking for copies of everything they have. I do have the family's blessing though!

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 24 Sep 2012 17:17

1881 England Census
about Thomas Neller
Name: Thomas Neller
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Neller
Mother's Name: Mary A. Neller
Gender: Male
Where born: Harlington, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Harlington
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Barn Row
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Carter

Registration district: Staines
Sub-registration district: Staines
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1328
Folio: 71
Page Number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
James Neller 41
Mary A. Neller 43
James Neller 20
Thomas Neller 16
Mary A. Neller 11
George Neller 7
Sarah Neller 4
Mariah Neller 3
Julia Neller

1891 England Census
about Thos Neller
Name: Thos Neller
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Neller
Mother's Name: Ann Neller
Gender: Male
Where born: Harlington, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Cranford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Dunstan
Town: Cranford
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Staines
Sub-registration district: Staines
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1016
Folio: 53
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
James Neller 53
Ann Neller 50
Thos Neller 27 *************single
Geo Neller 18
Sarah Neller 16
Maria Neller 12
Julia Neller 9





Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 17:32

Yes that's him too. Question is, was Lillie his child or did he take her on when he moved in with Jane? According to the 1911, Jane was born in Hounslow Heath (now Heathrow Airport!) around 1863 and I can't find a birth for her either.

I don't want to follow Thomas any further back without some indication that she was his. My ex-inlaw has almost concluded that Lillie was unregistered. I met Lillie back in the 1970's and she wouldn't go anywhere near a doctors or a hospital. It occurred to me that she may not have had a birth certificate?

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 24 Sep 2012 17:32

?????????????????

This one is single and born Cranford Middx but the age is a bit out.

1901 England Census
about Thomas Neller
Name: Thomas Neller
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Denford, Middlesex, England
[Cranford, Middlesex, England]

Civil parish: Heston
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 129
Piece: 1185
Folio: 71
Page Number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
William Foster 28
Jane Foster 28
Thomas Neller 32


Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 17:45

Cranford, Hounslow, Harlington, Heston are very close to each other - these days you can't tell where one stops and the other starts so it could well be him - if it is, he doesn't seem to have hooked up with Jane and a ten-year old Lillie does he? In that case I'm starting to think that he wasn't actually her father.

Maybe calling himself Thomas Kneller Fursey on her marriage cert was a kindness to protect her legal status?

jansmith

jansmith Report 24 Sep 2012 22:58

See in 1911 census it says married 24 years so i wonder if Jane was married and then not "free" to marry until perhaps husband had died?

Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 23:15

Yes it does, doesn't it. I had assumed she meant to Thomas, but all the previous census records show him living without her, so that can't be right, can it?

If Fursey was a previous married name, that would explain why I couldn't find a birth for Jane, but if Lillie was a product of that marriage I should have been able to find her. I wonder if she was perhaps born before Jane's first marriage? My head is whirling now - she could be anybody!

A previous marriage would also explain why Thomas and Jane didn't marry until 1918.

jansmith

jansmith Report 24 Sep 2012 23:20

I am wondering about this one but i cannot find Ida in census after marriage

Name: RANKIN, Ida Jane
Registration district: Brentford
County: Middlesex
Year of registration: 1887
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 3A
Page no: 103
MarriageFinder: Ida Jane Rankin married one of the following people:

FURZE, Harry ***perhaps this one
KING, Thomas Arthur
WALSH, Constance Greville
BURGESS, Annie Susan E

jansmith

jansmith Report 24 Sep 2012 23:31

??????? (could middle name have been changed-will look for this one on census tomorrow)
Births Jun 1892
Fussey Lily Victoria Hampstead 1a 665

Christine

Christine Report 24 Sep 2012 23:33

I am so grateful for all this help!