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The mystery of Lillie-no longer-now seeking Fursey

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Christine

Christine Report 24 Jan 2013 11:02

Thank you - you're a star!

Choccy

Choccy Report 23 Jan 2013 22:57



Will send the army records (6 pages) by PM :-)


Christine

Christine Report 23 Jan 2013 22:43

Choccy that's brilliant! It's obviously the right person all the way through. I had thought that the 1891 was going to be my best chance to find him, but the fact that he's shown as Hursey explains why I couldn't. I knew he was in Hounslow in 1893, and I had found a reference to his wife Susan (nee Thrush) being born in Wandsworth. His father is shown as Thomas on the marriage cert, so it all ties up. You have set me off on the right track and I'm so grateful.

The only place I can check census information at the moment is Familysearch which isn't really satisfactory - you can only check one person at a time - not family groups! I shall be glad when they sort out the problem with my account.

Do you have to have a subscription to find the army records? I couldn't find anything like that on the National Archives site. I can't afford Ancestry at the moment.

I'm off to bed now ( with a smile on my face!), but will check in tomorrow morning.

Choccy

Choccy Report 23 Jan 2013 21:00



completely at odds with what I've posted above!


??

1891

RG number: RG12
Piece: 1024
Folio: 15
Page: 23
Reg. District: Brentford
Sub District: Isleworth
Parish: Isleworth
Enum. District: 8
Ecclesiastical District: Holy Trinity
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 3, Manor Cottages, Inverness Road, Isleworth, Hounslow
County: Middlesex


HURSEY, John T Head Married M 34 1857 Farm Labourer
Southampton, Hampshire
HURSEY, Susan Wife Married F 28 1863
Wandsworth, Middlesex

Choccy

Choccy Report 23 Jan 2013 19:41



Brentford area ?


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: John Fursey
Year: 1898
County or Borough: Hounslow
Ward or Division/Constituency: Brentford
Street Address: 4, Cambridge-road, Hounslow


still there in 1899




possibly -

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915

Name: John Fursey
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1900
Age at Death: 43
Registration district: Staines
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 11




Choccy

Choccy Report 23 Jan 2013 19:01



??

British Army Service Records 1760-1915


First name(s): John
Last name: FURSEY
Calculated year of birth: 1857
Parish of birth: Crewkerne
Town of birth: Crewkerne
County of birth: Somerset
Age at attestation: 18 years 10 months
Attestation date: 18 January 1875
Attestation corps: 43RD BRIGADE
Attestation soldier number: 4349
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps:
Discharge soldier number:
The National Archives reference: WO97 / 2846 / 44


There are 6 images available for this soldier


transferred to the Hospital Corps in 1886 - discharged in 1889

Father - Thomas (address reads (I think) - Osmington, Weymouth, Dorset



1871

RG number: RG10
Piece: 2013
Folio: 76
Page: 11
Reg. District: Dorchester
Sub District: Maiden Newton
Parish: Frampton
Enum. District: 5C
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Cottage, Frampton
County: Dorsetshire

FURZEY, Thomas Head M 56 1815 Dorset
FURZEY, Sarah A Wife F 54 1817 Dorset
>>>>>FURZEY, John Son M 16 1855 Dorset



1881

RG number: RG11
Piece: 2103
Folio: 109
Page: 16
Reg. District: Weymouth
Sub District: Upway
Parish: Osmington
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Cottages, Osmington
County: Dorsetshire



FURZEY, Thomas Head Married M 68 1813 Ag Labourer
Marshwood, Dorset
FURZEY, Sarah Wife Married F 67 1814
Swyre, Dorset
GRIFFIN, Ada Grand Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Frampton, Dorset



Christine

Christine Report 23 Jan 2013 17:08

Hello everyone. I have picked this family up again after a break. I have concluded that John Fursey was, in all probability, Lillie Jane's real father but have not been able to find him anywhere in census returns - although this is something of a problem because I am still unable to upgrade my GR membership - keep coming up with an error.

To recap, Jane Wiltshire married John Fursey, widower in 1893. His wife Susan died 3 months beforehand. I did find a marriage for a John Fursey to a Susan Thrush in 1888- which would fit - and I have just received the certificate. The wedding took place in Aldershot, 15/7/1888 and he is shown as of full age and the occupation is Hospital Corps. I have googled Hospital Corps and this term was used during the right period, so if he was in the army, this would explain the lack of census information, I think. I have tried the National Archives site, but can't get anything up about it specifically. Any ideas anyone?

Christine

Christine Report 30 Oct 2012 22:34

Yes it does doesn't it. How sad for that family to lose father and son within such a short time. Reginald would have been Lillie Jane's first cousin. It seems impossible that she wouldn't have known him. This has turned out to be a very military based family. My brother-in-law (Lillie's grandson) has sent for the death certificate for Frank Wiltshire, so we will soon know how he died.

K

K Report 29 Oct 2012 14:54

1901 - It does look likely that it was his son

Name: Reginald Cecil Scott
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Cecil Scott
Mother's name: Amy Scott
Gender: Male
Where born: Hounslow, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Heston
Ecclesiastical parish: Hounslow Heath St Paul
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: The Barracks Hounslow
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 1186
Folio: 35
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Cecil Scott 31
Amy Scott 25
Elsie Amy Scott 6
Reginald Cecil Scott 5
Winifred Amy Scott 3
Harnold Wilfred Scott 9 Months

Christine

Christine Report 29 Oct 2012 14:33

Maths never was my strong point so I'm sure you're right! As one of his children was Reginald that could well have been his son. Because Cecil was a sibling of the person I was researching, I don't have any other information about his descendants I'm afraid.

Stuart

Stuart Report 29 Oct 2012 11:29

Christine -
I read it that he did 12 years + in his first stint which when added to his second stint from Feb 1898 to Dec 1911 more than made the 21 years reckonable service for pension (25+). Perhaps the rules had changed by then and his boys time of 3 1/2 years was not counted, so when subtracted he would have completed just over the 21???

Showing on Ancestry, there is a Reginald Cecil Scott No. 106022 Lance Corporal MAchine Gun Corps Killed in Action 9 Dec 1917 France and Flanders, enlisted Mill Hill. Formerly No. 13486 Middlesex Regiment - so I wonder if this was his son or just a coincidence??

Christine

Christine Report 29 Oct 2012 08:58

What a shame - that would make him only 42 and still about 7 years short of his full pension.

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 29 Oct 2012 03:36

According to a Public Family Tree on ancestry, Cecil died in March 1912, registered Edmonton, Middlesex


so he didn't live very long after discharged to pension.




sylvia

Christine

Christine Report 28 Oct 2012 22:43

Stuart that's amazing. Such a lot of information and how nice to have a description! This also mentions a sister I didn't know about. Very strange to think that his children would have grown up in the same area as Jane's and Lillie's and yet I'm fairly sure that the family I knew were unaware of any nearby relatives. Many thanks for your efforts.

Stuart

Stuart Report 28 Oct 2012 20:29

*Attested to Militia Duke of Cambridge's Own 3rd Battalion Middlesex Regt as a Boy 2 October 1884 to 24.4.1897 12 years 205 days.
*Service number 1147
*14 years 6 months, height 4 feet 103/4 inches, weight 75 lbs CofE Fresh complexion, hazel eyes, brown hair
*Appointed Drummer until 10 March 1888. Attained age of 18 on11 March 1888 and continued as Drummer. Granted Good Conduct Pay @ 1d on 4 Sept 1888
*NofK at attestation - Parents John and Jane Scott No 3 ALpha Cottages, Staines Road, Hounslow, Middx. 4 older brothers Edward, James, Richard and George. 2 sisters Eliza and Jane
GC Pay @ 2d on 2 Oct 1890 and @ 3d on 2 October 1896
*Married Amy Goddard Hounslow 9 Dec 1893 Hounslow, witnesses Thomas Townley and Alice Baverstock
*Discharged free after 12 years service 24.4.1897 Termination of engagement

*Attested again 3 February 1898 to 5th Btn The Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middx Regt) - says currently belongs to 2nd V?. B. Middx Regt
Medically fit 20th January 1898 at Hounslow-
(? reserves) Age 27 years and 10 months. Born Parish of Heston, Hounslow. Trade Musician.
*Service Number 5317
*Now 5feet 71/4 inches, weight 128 lbs, chest 341/2 in, expanded 37 inches. Complexion still fresh, hair and eyes dark brown. Scars - inside right elbow, forehead and outside left eye
*Embarked for South Africa 22.2.1902 until 30.8.1902
*Granted service pay at 7d 1.4.04
*Extended service on 1.4.1905 to complete 12 years with the colours
*Reengaged for the Middx Regt at Mill Hill on 4.10.1909 for such term as shall complete 21 years service (previous 12 year 205 days counted towards pension)
*Discharged to pension 31.12.1911

Obtained 3rd class certificate of education, passed class of instruction for ambulance 25.11.1910 and awarded South African War Medal with clasps for Cape Colony, Transvaal and South Africa 1902.
*Medal Roll NAtional Archives WO100 series Roll 195 Page 0
Gratuity on discharge £5

9 children listed on documents with DoB and baptisms
Elsie 27.9.94/2.12.94
Reginald 30.10.95/15.11.95
Winifred 3.11.97/12.12.97
Harold 11.6.00/27.7.00
Rosalind Mary 18.6.02
Constance Margaret 13.10.04/4.11.04
All aboveb/bap at Hounslow
Ivy Grace 14.1.06/not given
Dorothy 4.12.07/22.12.07
Ronald Jack 10.7.09/19.9.09
These 3 at Mill Hill

Christine

Christine Report 28 Oct 2012 19:57

Oh thank you Stuart that's really interesting - his sister's first husband, Frank Wiltshire - mentioned earlier in this thread - was a drummer in the Middlesex Regiment. He must have had some regard for him to have followed him into the same rank and regiment.

It's all these pieces of information that come together to give a feeling for what these people were like don't you think? It turns them onto real people and not just names on a document.

Much appreciated.

Stuart

Stuart Report 28 Oct 2012 18:49

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s): Cecil
Last name: SCOTT
Calculated year of birth: ?
Parish of birth:
Town of birth:
County of birth:
Age at attestation: 41 years 8 months<<<<<<<<<<<<<age at DISCHARGE
Attestation date:
Attestation corps:
Attestation soldier number:
Discharge rank: Drummer
Discharge corps: Duke Of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)
Discharge soldier number: 5317

The National Archives reference: WO97 / 5855 / 134

There are 13 images available for this soldier

Christine

Christine Report 28 Oct 2012 13:47

Hello K

Maybe the transcriber assumed that Berwick was Wiltshire?

Yes if the 1911 gives him as Cecil that must be right, mustn't it. Perhaps she just liked the name Cyril! This turning out to be a really interesting line.

K

K Report 28 Oct 2012 11:23

Sorry - the transciption was Berwick Wiltshire. I have no idea were Wiltshire came from the image is just Berwick and I think your husband is right re Berwick on Tweed.

Berwick moved back and forth between Scotland and England over the years.

I can't see the family anywhere in 1861.

Re Cyril/Cecil I think it is the 1871 census that is incorrect and he is Cecil as below and in 1911

Births Mar 1870 (>99%)
Scott Cecil Brentford 3a 58

1911

Name: Cecil Scott
Age in 1911: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Birth Place: Hounslow, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Hendon
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: Mill Hill Barracks, Bittacy Hill, Mill Hill N W
Marital Status: Married
Military unit: 5th Battalion Middlesex Regiment
Registration district: Hendon
Registration District Number: 130
Sub-registration district: Hendon
ED, institution, or vessel: 27-34
Piece: 7128

Christine

Christine Report 28 Oct 2012 09:18

K, I have now had chance to go through everything you sent me yesterday ( I was too tired last night, so I printed it all off). Several things strike me. Firstly, I am coming to believe that John Scott may have been a tailor for the army, so that his absence in 1871 could mean that he was away with them. There is a later connection (Frank Wiltshire) with the Middlesex Regiment, based in Hounslow. I need to find out where the regiment was in 1871.

The two youngest sons were George and Cyril. Jane's daughter, Lillie Jane had two sons, named George and Cyril. Possibly Cecil in the 1881/1891 was mis-transcribed?

I was really puzzled by John Scott having been born in Wiltshire and Scotland, until my husband (who doesn't normally take any interest!) said "Oh, it'll be Berwick-on-Tweed". I believe that's on the borders, so may have been part of Scotland at that time. It could have been an attachment to the army that brought him down to Middlesex. I feel a subscription to Scotland's People coming on!

Thank you so much!