Find Ancestors

To be absolutely sure you have the right couple you really need to get one of the children's birth certificates andif it confirms Martha's maiden name as Smith you could do with the marriage cert to see who Martha names as her father.

(Was Smith a convenient name to use I wonder ??)

pity - I just wondered where you had got Annie's maiden name from

Hiya Ann.

There is very little left of the birth certificate its been in a box for years and its just bits and pieces but the bits I could get together shown the names as Martha and David as being Annies parents. Then when Annie got married and had her 2 children she called them after her parents.

does it also confirm that Martha Alice's maiden name was Smith?

What was her exact date of birth - not sure it will help us but you never know?

1911
HOWELL, David Head Married M 56 1855 Dock Labourer Salford
HOWELL, Martha Alice Wife Married 30 years F 48 1863 Home Bolton

It ssays they have been married for 30 so Martha would have been 18 and David would have been 26..

Just found an old box with some very very old certificates in it. I found bits of Annies birth certificate patched it up and it gives her parents as being Martha Alice and David as her dad. Infact by mothers name it says mark of Martha Alice and a X seems she couldnt write.

Funny how the Bradbury family don't show up in any other census records!

Im not sure Ann Ive got a few in boxes I will try and find it tomorrow. Whats my luck every other one but hers lol

Just thought when Annie had her 2 children my mam and her brother she named them Martha Alice after her mam and her son she called David after her dad.

do you have Annie birth certificate Elaine to prove her parentage?

Perhaps in 1901 they were hiding from the rent man

On the 1911 census it says the 2 Davids and Robert all work at Manchester Docks as dock labourers.

The Martha Alice bit is right because Annie named her daughter my mam Martha Alice Sharp....Annies married name.

Just to compare ('cos my mind's racing )

1891
David Howell 27 (Carter) Born Worsley Lancashire
Margaret Howell 25 Born Bolton Lancashire

1901
William Bradbury 46 ....Dock Labourer...Worsley
Martha A Bradbury 36 ...born: Bolton

1911
HOWELL, David Head Married M 56 1855 Dock Labourer Salford
HOWELL, Martha Alice Wife Married 30 years F 48 1863 Home Bolton

The ages don't stack up.
The David married to Margaret was born c 1864
The David married to Martha was born c 1855


Did Martha Alice Smith marry Bradbury (can't find a marriage) and then marry David Howell under her middle and maiden name to avoid detection ?

Or is David and William one and the same and for some reason changed his name and then back again ?

I need a lie down !

on the 1891 census posted by GB the address is 35 Lambert St - the same as on the baptisms of Robert & Eliza Alice

Will check back on here tomorrow.

Prickles. :-)

Baptisms: 2 Nov 1887 Christ Church, Salford, Lancashire, England
David Howell - Child of David Howell & Margaret
Born: 1 Sep 1887
Abode: 2 West George Street
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J. A. Stowell
Register: Baptisms 1882 - 1892, Page 164, Entry 1310
Source: LDS Film 1786366

Baptisms: 7 May 1890 Christ Church, Salford, Lancashire, England
Robert Howell - Child of David Howell & Margaret
Born: 26 Aug 1890 [sic]
Abode: 35 Lambert Street
Occupation: Lurryman
Baptised by: J. A. Pattinson
Register: Baptisms 1882 - 1892, Page 242, Entry 1935
Source: LDS Film 1786366

Baptisms: 6 Jul 1892 Christ Church, Salford, Lancashire, England
Eliza Alice Howell - Child of David Howell & Margaret Alice
Born: 1892
Abode: 35 Lambert Street
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: Fred. Knight
Register: Baptisms 1892 - 1898, Page 18, Entry 143
Source: LDS Film 1786366

note the address for Robert & Eliza Alice is the same

Is this just a strange coincidence???


1901 England Census
Name: Martha A Bradbury
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Bradbury
Gender: Female
Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Paddington St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Address: 2 Alma Street

Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 163
Piece: 3733
Folio: 86
Page Number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
William Bradbury 46 ....Dock Labourer...Worsley
Martha A Bradbury 36
David Bradbury 16
Robert Bradbury 14
Eliza A Bradbury 9
Nannie Bradbury 3


All children born in Salford.

Eliza was a servant in 1911 living away

Just found Martha Alice Smith (maiden name) on the 1871 census.
MATHEW SMITH....DAD....40
ELIZABETH SMITH...MOTHER,,,39
ELIZABETH SMITH....DAUGHTER....14
MARY SMITH....DAUGHTER....11
MARTHA ALICE SMITH...DAUGHTER..8
KING STREET....FARNWORTH....BOLTON.

Curious !

No birth for Martha alice smith in Bolton but there is this one ...


Births Sep 1862
SMITH Margaret Alice - Bolton 8c 335

I think this child survived, as there is a marriage in Salford in 1916. So she should be with them in 1901.

Baptisms: 6 Jul 1892 Christ Church, Salford, Lancashire, England
Eliza Alice Howell - Child of David Howell & Margaret Alice
Born: 1892
Abode: 35 Lambert Street
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: Fred. Knight
Register: Baptisms 1892 - 1898, Page 18, Entry 143
Source: LDS Film 1786366

Been looking at FMP but I have not got a sub to view any possible results