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Hi,

I have a sneaky feeling that the family I am looking for might just have been in and out of the country for some of the 1860s and 70s and maybe even some of the 1880s. I could be wrong but I would like to rule it out for certain before I continue.

Please could someone see if they show up on immigration records.


Fanny Mary BARRELL (nee Rutland) born circa 1841 or 1846

Richard BARRELL b circa 1837 (dec'd Dec 1890)

Ethel Maud BARRELL b 1873

Elizabeth CRUMP born America c1875.

Elizabeth is shown as servant in 1891 but I'm not so certain there isn't more to her connection than that.


Researching this branch of the family with (at this time) mysterious connections is like doing a jigsaw puzzle where it's all one colour and all the pieces are identical. It's absolutely fascinating. I'm having so much fun :-D

Many thanks,

Jill

Another piece of the jigsaw?

Ethel Maud Barrell
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Apr 1874
Father's Name: Richard Barrell - Miller
Mother's Name: Fanny Mary Barrell
Parish or Poor Law Union: Chelsea St Luke
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type: Parish Registers

Assuming Ethel is 'yours', then dob on the register says 1 Oct 1873. So at least Fanny, if not Richard was in England at the time of the baptism.

Where does Elizabeth Crump fit in with your puzzle?

Ey Up Jill


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Richard Barrill <<Corn Miller
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Age: 35
Spouse Name: Fanny Mary Rutland
Spouse Age: 30
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Aug 1872
Parish: Brompton Holy Trinity
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: Zacharias Barrill <<Gentleman
Spouse Father Name: William Rutland
Register Type: Parish Register

A tree on Ancestry has
Elizabeth Mary Crump
Birth 1875 in East US - Boston Massachutsis

source is Ancestry trees!

They have the parents as

Walter Herbert Crump
Birth 18 Sep 1851 in St. Peters, Ramsgate Kent
Hannah Foat
Birth Sep 1848 in Ramsgate, Kent, England
Death 1879
Marriage to Walter Herbert Crump
Ebenezer Chapel, Ramsgate 13 Jun 1872

Again, only source is Ancestry trees

Hannah Foat was his first wife.

The other child listed as a child of Walter Herbert Crump and Hannah Float is
Alice Rose Crump
1876, Margate, Kent

1903 Sep Age: 27
Marriage to Walter Edward Rutland
Freebridge Lynn, Norfolk, Massachusetts, United States

Births Sep 1876 (>99%)
Crump Alice Rose Chelsea 1a 294


RUTLAND, Walter Edward Head Married M 40 1871 Groom Domestic Grimston Norfolk VIEW
RUTLAND, Alice Rose Wife Married7 years F 34 1877 Chelsea London VIEW
RUTLAND, Edna May Daughter F 4 1907 Dersingham Norfolk VIEW

RG number: RG14 Piece: 11603 Reference: RG14PN11603 RG78PN638 RD234 SD2 ED11 SN74 Registration District: Docking Sub District: Snettisham Enumeration District: 11 Parish: Dersingham Address: Askers Row Dersingham County: Norfolk

DetEcTive. Thank you so much. Spot on for her. Thank you for the baptism date and dob.

I don't know where Elizabeth Crump fits in at the moment beyond her being the family servant. But would you understand if I say that sometimes I just get a feeling, a sixth sense if you will; where does 'gut instinct' come from? I can't explain it but it's like a little voice in my head. Coming from a naturally psychic family, I get pyschic vibes. I don't question it any more. Plus, as crazy as it sounds, since I began to do this branch of the family and all its connections some time ago, I've been lucky. It may be that the info is there anyway and I am becoming a better researcher but it's like the family want me to unravel them. I can't believe that I am alone in the occasional feeling that someone is looking with me. And for some reason, I knew that for this family, the United States had some greater meaning.

Hi Gins,

Waving at you lovely lady.

Thanks for this and for Zacharias and William. Another generation back is brilliant.

I'm having a wonderful time creating a tree on good old squared paper. It is so much easier than a computer screen.

DetEcTive. Thanks for this too. I will transfer this onto my paper.

And to continue the fun. Elizabeth's sister marries a Rutland in America but is then back in the UK by 1911.

Thank you to Astra for the census.

Oh boy! Fun Fun Fun.

Shame I have to stop for a few minutes now to sort out evening meals.

If anyone can find some immigration info, that would still be brill.

Thanks all.

<3 <3 <3 <3

Sorry - got called away.

That tree on Ancestry is unsourced other than Ancestral Trees. So who knows if it is correct???

Not having any luck with the shipping records Jill :-(


Fanny is a widow in 1891 so here is Richards death


Deaths Dec 1890
---------------------------------------------------
Barrell Richard 53 Chelsea 1a 270

Thanks DetEcTive. Noted.

Thanks Gins. I'd found Richards death.

Please try harder to find the shipping records. This isn't good enough and I expect better from you. :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-D :-D

Cheeky mare :-P <3

Haaa


1881 England Census
about Fanny M. Banell
Name: Fanny M. Banell
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Richard Banell
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Chelsea
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 147 Beaufort Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea, North-West
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 81
Folio: 23
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Banell 44
Fanny M. Banell 31
Ethel M. Banell 7

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Fanny Mary Rutland
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1 Oct 1841 <<<<<Born Sept 6th 1841
Father's Name: William Rutland <<<<Sadler? Sloan Street
Mother's Name: Sarah Ann Rutland
Parish or Poor Law Union: Chelsea St Luke
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type: Parish Registers

I take it all back. You are so wonderful :-P

Explains why I couldn't find them in the 1881.

Waving madly at you. <3 <3

:-D


She was a porkie, our Fanny, about her age!

Wasn't she just.

In the 1891 you can't even blame the ennumerator having bad writing. In the 1881 which you so brilliantly found (sticks fingers down throat) she has again defied normal aging practice and got younger with age.

Please would you see if you can find the family in earlier census. The house has suddenly got busy again and I can't keep my train of thoughts together and I can't find them. It's probably me. Looks like my afternoon sabatical is over :-D :-D

RUTLAND, William Head Married M 43 1808 Saddler Master Employing 2 Man
Wavendon, Buckinghamshire VIEW
RUTLAND, Sarah A Wife Married F 42 1809
Soho, Middlesex VIEW
RUTLAND, Martha A Daughter Unmarried F 15 1836
Chelsea, Middlesex VIEW
RUTLAND, Emma M Daughter F 13 1838 Scholar
Chelsea, Middlesex VIEW
RUTLAND, Fanny M Daughter F 9 1842 Scholar
Chelsea, Middlesex VIEW
SINGLETON, Ann Servant Unmarried F 23 1828 General Servant
Chillington, Somersetshire VIEW

Piece: 1474 Folio: 239 Page: 4 Registration District: Chelsea Civil Parish: Saint Luke Chelsea Municipal Borough: Address: 199, Sloane Street, Saint Luke Chelsea, Hans County: Middlesex

Zachariah Barrell by the way was a Grocer born in 1783

Amazing how that became Gent when Richard married!

Richard Barrell
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Zachariah Barrell
Mother's Name: Lucy Barrell
Gender: Male
Where born: St Georges, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Simon
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 679
Piece: 39
Folio: 50
Page Number: 92
Household Members: Name Age
Zachariah Barrell 78 << retired grocer as Astra said
Lucy Barrell 55 << wife
Richard Barrell 24
Alfred R Little 5 << grandson
Susan Wright 68

Think this may be Richard in 1841:

Richard Barrell
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George Hanover Square
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: Mayfair
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 734
Book: 6
Folio: 26
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Davison 65
Caroline Daniels 25
Laura Daniels 2
Mary Ward 45
Charlotte De Beauregard 20
Richard De Beauregard 7
Lageharia Barrell 55 <<< Zac, could be on image, and he's a grocer
Lucy Barrell 35 <<<
Martha Barrell 13 <<<
Lucy Barrell 12 <<<
Richard Barrell 4 <<<
Elizabeth Sancock 30
John Sancock 30
John Sancock 3
Mary Sancock 7
Elizabeth Sancock 5
William Sancock 2
Nk Sancock 2 Mo
Susan Wright 45
Mary Biggs 35