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THRASHER & JEZARD & COURTENAY FAMILY 1 OF 2

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Lorraine Karen

Lorraine Karen Report 17 Nov 2012 12:00

Ruth Jezard is an actress.

She has been found in The Stage online archive.

Ruth Jezard played at The Royal Drury Lane Theatre, so is possibly how her sister (Grace) Alice met the aristocrat and had their illegitimate child or (Grace) Alice herself is an actress (we are still researching this).

These are the beautiful Victorian posters and programme with Ruth Jezard in the 1899 pantomime Jack & The Beanstalk - lavish productions that went on for months.
http://www.its-behind-you.com/gallery634.html

Lorraine Karen

Lorraine Karen Report 4 Nov 2012 13:19

THANK YOU GENES REUNITED RESEARCHERS
SINCE THIS POSTING WE HAVE FOUND OUT THAT
ROBERT COURTENAY IS ACTUALLY ROBERT THRASHER

Grace Courtenay states on her wedding certificate to Herbert Solomon in 1901 Kensington that her father is Robert Courtenay deceased and a cab proprietor.

Grace is on the 1901 census living in Kensington
Grace is on the marriage register in 1901 Kensington
Grace is on the 1911 census living in Kew
Grace is on the death register 1941 Blackpool

THANK YOU GENES REUNITED RESEARCHERS
SINCE THIS POSTING WE HAVE FOUND OUT THAT
GRACE'S BIRTH MAIDEN NAME IS THRASHER (AND ONLY STARTED TO USE GRACE IN 1901)
GRACE COULD HAVE USED ANOTHER MAIDEN NAME OF JEZARD (AND ONLY STARTED TO USE GRACE IN 1901)
HAVE GRACE'S BIRTH REGISTER

However, we have not been able to find Grace's birth record - supposedly born in 1872-1877 in Holborn.

THANK YOU GENES REUNITED RESEARCHERS
SINCE THIS POSTING WE HAVE FOUND OUT THAT
GRACE'S BIRTH MAIDEN NAME IS THRASHER
WE HAVE FOUND GRACE ON 1881 CENSUS WITH FAMILY
WE HAVE FOUND GRACE ON 1891 AS A SERVANT

We have not been able to find Grace on the 1881 census or 1891 census.

Grace has two possible fathers but without being able to find Grace's birth certificate or Grace on a census with her family we can only guess.

THANK YOU GENES REUNITED RESEARCHERS
SINCE THIS POSTING WE HAVE FOUND OUT THAT
ROBERT COURTENAY IS NOT GRACE'S FATHER BUT IS ROBERT THRASHER

Possible fathers:

Marriage 1861 Holborn
Robert William Courtenay and is a hackney carriage driver
Sarah Perkins
We have checked through the censuses for Robert Courtenay and Sarah Courtenay and Grace does not appear on any censuses with them. However, Robert dies in 1899 and Grace states in 1901 on her wedding certificate that her father is dead.

An alternative father is Robert Isaac Courtenay born in Dublin in 1834
He marries in Lambeth in 1871 to Louisa Long and then seems to get married again in 1872 in Lambeth and again in 1879 in Lambeth to Mary Ann Bear.
Cannot find Robert in the 1871 census (which wouldn't help as Grace would not be born) but the 1881 census has only Mary Ann's children living with them and on the 1891 census Robert and Mary Ann are found at separate locations without Grace. Robert dies in 1896 which also fits in with Grace's father being dead for 1901 wedding.

Reggie

Reggie Report 3 Nov 2012 16:55

I'm afraid I shall do no more for you on this, as you obviously already knew everything I found for you about the wretched Courtenay/Solomon link.

Reggie

Reggie Report 3 Nov 2012 16:54

Lorraine

'Deceased' fathers were very often invented.....so don't rely on info on marriage certs

Reggie

Reggie Report 3 Nov 2012 16:51

There are multiple threads about this, and people are duplicating research.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1313545

Reggie

Reggie Report 3 Nov 2012 16:50

Lorraine

It is utterly pointless for you to ask for info about people who stood as witnesses at weddings..............

Lorraine Karen

Lorraine Karen Report 3 Nov 2012 14:11

Sorry GR and thank you everyone - contact details removed
Lorraine

Ivy

Ivy Report 3 Nov 2012 11:50

1881 census:

Name: G.H.J. Engelhardt
[Gertrude.Helen Irene Engelhardt] <<< as submitted by Gary Bowtell on Ancestry - perhaps worth contacting Gary?
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: J.H.C. Engelhardt
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Putney
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: Hazeldean Putney H
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Putney
ED, institution, or vessel: 11a

Piece: 663
Folio: 52
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
J.H.C. Engelhardt 40
G.H.J. Engelhardt 37
Mabel B. Engelhardt 10
Ethel Engelhardt 7
Marguerite Engelhardt 4
Walter Engelhardt 3
Charles Nealtuesen 62
Alicia 50
Chr. Spould 45
U. Forthe 42
Ada Welch 18
H. Watts 26
F. Preston 26
S. Lilley 23

Ivy

Ivy Report 3 Nov 2012 11:48

1871 census:

Name: Gertrude H Engelhardt
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Frederick Engelhardt
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Clapham
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Clapham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Clapham
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 30
Piece: 698
Folio: 6
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick Engelhardt 30
Gertrude H Engelhardt 29
Francis A Engelhardt 4
Infant Engelhardt 1 Month
Elizabeth Spearing 53
Emily Bingle 26
Hannah Binns 30
Fanny Knapp 28
Harriet Geer 19

Ivy

Ivy Report 3 Nov 2012 11:46

... so I am just adding some possible details for Gertrude Engelhardt:

Gertrude Helen Irene Barnes m Frederick Henry Charles Engelhardt in 1864 (4th q). The marriage took place in the Hastings registration district (Sussex).

They are seen together on the 1871 census in Clapham, Surrey.
They have two small children, several servants.
Gertrude’s age is given as 29, born Cheltenham (i.e. b approx 1842)

They are in Putney in 1881, initials only given, although “Gary Bowtell” has added a note on Ancestry giving the couple’s full names.

She may perhaps be identified with Irene G H Barnes, daughter of Joseph and Sarah Barnes, seen on the 1851 census living in Westminster. Joseph Barnes’ occupation is clerk to the solicitor general.

Joseph Barnes Head abt 1802 Mickleton, Gloucestershire, England
Sarah H Barnes Wife abt 1801 Shepton Mallet, Somerset, England

Children of Joseph and Sarah H Barnes:
Conglantine A Bell abt 1835 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Frederick S E Bell abt 1838 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Son
Irene G H Bell abt 1841 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
(NB the Bell is a mistranscription on Ancestry of “Do”, for ditto)

Ivy

Ivy Report 3 Nov 2012 11:44

It looks like the contact details have been taken out now.

Ivy

Ivy Report 3 Nov 2012 10:15

Oh - I see that it has been reinstated but without removal of the contact details... I wonder if Lorraine is around to edit it out?

Ivy

Ivy Report 2 Nov 2012 23:12

OK thanks, will pm Lorraine.

I did point out in the report email that it was only the final paragraph of the post that had the contact details, so I hope that the staff will reinstate - either as edited, or to be edited by Lorraine?

jax

jax Report 2 Nov 2012 23:07

Once reported nothing can be done until GR decides whether it stays or goes

Staff members maybe around tomorrow as I have known of posts being removed on a saturday morning/afternoon

Ivy

Ivy Report 2 Nov 2012 23:04

Hi I've had a pm from Lorraine, saying that she cannot see how to edit her reported post.

Jax, is it the case that Lorraine's post will be unavailable to her now until a GR staff member looks at this?

Should I email GR directly and would that speed up the process, or are the boards unmanned all over the weekend?

jax

jax Report 2 Nov 2012 22:27

GR can edit out the email address's and phone numbers....but after I asked them to do this after the poster read and ignored my pm (I gave him 48 hours after opening the message)...they removed the post, so it depends who is working tomorrow or even monday as to whether the thread will be reinstated or not

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 2 Nov 2012 22:27

I would hope, if I was naive enough to put my full home address on an open site like this, that someone would have the sense to get it removed asap for my 'own good' , assuming I did not stick around to do it myself when prompted .

patchem

patchem Report 2 Nov 2012 22:15

I agree with jax that it is better to pm the poster directly, as they have chosen to publicise their own addresses.
However, some posters do not read their emails for days.
It is against the site's terms and conditions, but surely that is up to genes to censure, not us?
However, thanks to Ivy for acknowledging what she has done, even if I personally think she did not need to.

jax

jax Report 2 Nov 2012 21:48

I cannot understand why these threads had to be reported before the poster was contacted by pm

After all its her email and phone number, not someone elses...seen much worse on the GR facebook page

Ivy

Ivy Report 2 Nov 2012 20:57

I have now as well.