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Margaret MCCLUSKY / MCLUSKY var. Glasgow?

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Trena

Trena Report 10 Nov 2012 02:35

Hope someone can help with this:

On Canadian census, 1891-1911, my great-gran's birth date is down as 27th March 1857, Daughter who was informant on d/c 14th February 1943 Bedford Halifax Co Nova Scotia,, put down same birth date.

1881 census at 193 Castle St Glasgow Scotland, a married Margaret (John WHYATT) gives age suggesting a c1855 birth year. Her widowed father John MCLUSKY is also in household. Margaret states birth place was Glasgow. Think her father says the same.

M/cert at Dennistoun 16th July 1875, [Marget MCLUSKY] gives age which also suggests c1855. Father down as John MCCLUSKY - mother is Jane STEVENSON.

I think I may have found John MCCLUKY / MCLUSKY households in previous census records but am not positive. One (Dumbarton?) is under MCCLUSKIE. I know Margaret had one sister Mary MCLUSKY born c1852. On all of those, parents & at least some children are all born in Ireland. No idea if they are mine or not.

On Mary's m/cert to James MCKENZIE blacksmith, in 1877, parents are John MCLUSKY & Sarah STEVENSON

Mary's d/c January 1881 gives mother as Janet STEVENSON. Daughter born 1879 named Sarah MCKENZIE

Son Robert MCLUSKY born 29th Feb 1877 - came to Canada with WHYATT family in 1887. Name spelt WYATT on maifest; known as Robert WYATT the rest of his life. Shortly before she died, Margaret told him / siblings in Canada his true surname was MCKENZIE.

Margaret's first daughter born 1881 named Janet Stevenson WHYATT (b/c).

TRY as I might, I cannot find Margaret's birth on SP, nor on www.familysearch.org (can't find Mary's either). Closest is one in Paisley Abbey c1847 (or 1849?). I was leaning toward that one for a long time as there was a marriage for a John MCLUSKY & Sarah STEVENSON which fit in nearby Lochwinnoch. Plus, a marriage for John STEVENSON & Mary WYLIE in Lochwinnoch c1799, listed as Janet's parents on her 1880 d/cert.

Can anyone find Margaret's & Mary's births? How do you feel about any of the pre-1881 census records being my lot? The marriages in Lochwinnoch? Do you think some or all are my family?

Thank you for any help given. Sorry for long post!
Trena

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 10 Nov 2012 04:57

???

Margaret Mclusky
Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
birth: 09 Nov 1857 HUTCHESONTOWN,?GLASGOW,?LANARK,?SCOTLAND
parents: John Mclusky,? Marjory Mcdermid


name: Margaret Mclusky
gender: Female
birth date: 09 Nov 1857
birthplace: HUTCHESONTOWN,GLASGOW,LANARK,SCOTLAND
father's name: John Mclusky
mother's name: Marjory Mcdermid
indexing project (batch) number: C11934-1
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 6035516

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 10 Nov 2012 06:15

Trena


remember that the age given on any census can be up to 2 years out ..................

the householder had to give the age in years, the modern-day transcriber then altered that to birth year.

BUT it all depends on the date when the census was taken vs the birth date


Also ................. the 1841 census on England and Wales censuses (I don't know about the Scottish one) was different again.

The enumerators were supposed to round down to the nearest 5 the age of all people over the age of 15 ......


.... thus someone shown as 45 could actually be any age between 45 and 49.


sylvia

Potty

Potty Report 10 Nov 2012 09:44

What address is on Margaret's marriage cert and is her father's occupation given? Where was she married?

Potty

Potty Report 10 Nov 2012 09:49

Is this them in 1871:

1871 Scotland Census
about Margaret Mccluskey
Name: Margaret Mccluskey
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's Name: John Mccluskey
Mother's name: Janet Mccluskey
Gender: Female
Where born: Lochwinnoch, Renfrewshire
Registration number: 644/3
Registration district: Bridgeton
Civil parish: Glasgow Calton
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 38 Rumford St
Occupation: Aci Pacer Cotton Mill
ED: 128
Household schedule number: 62
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1871_130
Household Members: Name Age
John Mccluskey 51 b Ireland
Janet Mccluskey 52 b Dalry, Lanarkshire
Mary Mccluskey 20 b Lochwinnoch
Margaret Mccluskey 14


Potty

Potty Report 10 Nov 2012 09:58

Same family in 1861: all except John snr b Lochwinnoch:

1861 Scotland Census
about John McCluskie
Name: John McCluskie
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: John McCluskie
Mother's name: Janet McCluskie
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochinough, Renfrewshire
Registration number: 644/3
Registration district: Bridgeton
Civil parish: Glasgow Calton
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 97 Reid St
ED: 105
Household schedule number: 29
Line: 18
Roll: CSSCT1861_101
Household Members: Name Age
John McCluskie 43
Janet McCluskie 44
John McCluskie 12
Mary McCluskie 10
Margaret McCluskie 4
Joseph Kidd 15


Potty

Potty Report 10 Nov 2012 10:05

familysearch has this marriage:

groom's name: John Mclusky
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Sarah Stevenson
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 24 Sep 1841
marriage place: Lochwinnoch,Renfrew,Scotland
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number:

M11570-5
system origin:

Scotland-ODM
source film number:
1041278
reference number:

Trena

Trena Report 11 Nov 2012 08:04

Thank you for all the replies. Margaret MCCLUKY / MCLUSKY's mother was most definitely Jane STEVENSON on her marriage cert. First daughter. 1 week old on 1881 census is named Janet Stevenson WHYATT ~ I have her b/c.

When I first saw the one with Marjory MCDERMID, I was half convinced this was my g-gran's birth .. until I obtained her marriage cert. Also, in all of Scotland between 1855 & 1881, the ONLY death of a STEVENSON with a MCLUSKY or variation, spouse, was Janet STEVENSON married to a John MCLUSKY. Tripled checked by me at GROS in Edinburgh in June 2001 .. but because I did not believe my findings, a staff member checked, 3 x. He also thought something was wrong so had another staff member search. He did, 3 x. They even double checked Margaret's marriage to John WHYATT, Mary's marriage to James MCKENZIE plus Mary's death. Their conclusion: That Janet STEVENSON wife of John MCLUSKY had to be my 2 x great-grandmother. It gave me her parents' names.

Biggest fly in the ointment was Mary had Sarah on her m/c deceased, but her d/c said Janet deceased. Janet STEVENSON was alive when Mary wed.

Are Sarah & Jane sisters? or are they the same person? Will I ever know with certainty? I fear not.

For this family I have 12 UK BMDs, 10 of them Scottish, 2 English (Margaret & John WHYATT had 4 children born in Glasgow; 2 in England; 6 in Canada. First 2 little boys died in Glasgow, so their deaths are 2 of the certs.)

Margaret was married in a Church of Scotland (name escapes me) located on Wishart Street Dennistoun. Both gave Dennistoun addresses for residence at time of marriage. I remember looking them up & both were not far from where church was. Witnesses are unknowns.

For those who aren't familiar with Glasgow, Dennistoun is very close to Townhead / centre of city. Also not far from 193 Castle St where Margaret & husband John WHYATT were living in 1881 census. PLUS, within walking distance of 7 Kennedy Street, where Janet STEVENSON (m. John MCLUSKY) died in 1880.

On Margaret's m/c I believe father worked on railway. On Janet's d/c he is "railway worker". On 1881 census (in WHYATT household) the now widowed John MCLUSKY is "street hawker". I didn't check before coming to your replies, but it most definitely says hawker.

On Mary's m/c it also says railway worker (forget exact wording ~ I've put the certs away for safekeeping & can't remember exactly where! Think our safe .. hubby's not here & I can't recall combination or find the key which will also open it. Our marriage & birth certs are in there, so think that is where I put them as well.)

I know ages can vary on census, but on the Canadian census an actual date is given, as is Margaret's d/c. all are 27 March 1857 Her widowed youngest daughter who lived with her was informant.

Scottish census: Would any of you who have looked at all census years think this is the same family? In all between 1851 & 1871? I can't recall seeing 1841, but know some contain far less info than following census returns & ages rounded to nearest 5. That too can vary. some people rounded up, others rounded down. One of my families in Norwich did half the kids up, rest down.

Main thing that bothered me was the variations in these John MCLUKY's occupations. One census says Delft dealer, I believe. Another ironstone worker I think. Those jobs aren't that far off from each other, but not exactly anything to do with the railway.. If he'd been an ironstone worker, with good quality crockery made from it, I can see where it might be referred to as Delftware. Perhaps that John changed jobs and went into an area where the crockery was actually made.

I know (our) Margaret & Mary both worked in cotton mills. John WHYATT was a cotton weaver (eventually Master Weaver).

Birth places kind of made me wonder, but not overly much. I know the Irish often gave Scottish places rather than say Ireland. Ages for Mary & Margaret are close too, though the Margaret's on census in posts above are more inline with the date on Canadian documents, than her m/c and Glasgow census.

Two other things regarding birthplaces. 1) Margaret told some family members that she had been born in Renfrewshire. Some remember her saying so, others don't. Some believed Glasgow. All of us always knew she'd wed in Glasgow.

2) I know she asked my Dad when she found out he'd be escorting convoys across the Atlantic during WWll, if he ever got to a port along the Clyde, if he'd try to get a photo/picture of Dumbarton Rock. He did, even getting to the isle itself, bringing back a stone from there. It was on her nightstand til the day she died, a year or so later. That made me think she'd (at least) lived somewhere close to the Rock or saw it often enough, it had become a symbol of the home she'd left sometime before 4 August 1884 when her son James was born in Mellor Derbys.

Knowing the last two bits, I was afraid of being influenced in claiming the folk who put Lochwinnoch as birth or marriage places, then of course claiming those on returns who also put Lochwinnoch. I want to be able to claim & record the correct family ... but if those census returns for 1861 & 1871 are correct, plus John & Sarah (aka Jane?) married Lochwinnoch are the correct parents, then why can I not find our Margaret's birth?

I truly thank each of you for all the help. It is much appreciated.

Trena (sorry for length of my reply)

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 11 Nov 2012 08:24

Janet Whyatt
Scotland Census, 1881
birth: 1881 Lanarkshire
residence: 1881 St Rollox,? Lanarkshire,? Scotland


name: Janet Whyatt
event type: Census
event date: 1881
gender: Female
age: 0
birthplace: Lanarkshire
registration district: St Rollox
county: Lanarkshire
estimated birth year: 1881

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 11 Nov 2012 08:25

?????

Janet Wyatt
Canada, Marriages, 1661-1949
birth: 1881 Glasgow,? Scotland
marriage: 23 Jul 1901 Halifax,? Halifax,? Nova Scotia
parents: John,? Margaret
spouse: Charles Nelson


groom's name: Charles Nelson
groom's birth date: 1873
groom's birthplace: Beaver Bank, Hfx. Co.
groom's age: 28
bride's name: Janet Wyatt
bride's birth date: 1881
bride's birthplace: Glasgow, Scotland
bride's age: 20
marriage date: 23 Jul 1901
marriage place: Halifax, Halifax, Nova Scotia
groom's father's name: Moses
groom's mother's name: Mary
bride's father's name: John
bride's mother's name: Margaret
indexing project (batch) number: M58644-8
system origin: Canada-EASy
source film number: 1298883

Potty

Potty Report 11 Nov 2012 10:39

Trena, there is a six year age difference between Mary and Margaret on the 1861; on that census John's wife is given as Janet, who would be Margaret's mother. Possibly John was married to a Sarah who died and then remarried Janet who had the same surname, Stevenson.

Civil registration did not start in Scotland until 1855 so both death and remarriage could have happened before that, although, given Margaret's age (4 ) in 1861, I would have thought it was more likely that a marriage would have taken place nearer that date.

Have you found the family in 1851?

Potty

Potty Report 11 Nov 2012 11:25

Margaret's birth!

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ9L-VBJ
name: Margaret Mcloskly
gender: Female
baptism/christening date:
baptism/christening place:
birth date: 24 Mar 1857
birthplace: LOCHWINNOCH,RENFREW,SCOTLAND
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: John Mcloskly
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Janet Stevenson
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C11570-1
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 6035516
reference number:
Collection: "Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950," Margaret Mcloskly, 1857

Could this tie in somewhere:

1841 Scotland Census
about Sarah Stevenson
Name: Sarah Stevenson
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Renfrewshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Johnshill
Occupation: Cotton Worker
Parish Number: 570
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Stevenson 60
Elisabath Stevenson 20
Janet Stevenson 22
Sarah Stevenson 20
James Stevenson 4


Potty

Potty Report 11 Nov 2012 11:36

Trena, have you looked at the 1841 marriage on scotlandspeople? The image might give some more info. Margaret's birth should also be on scotlandspeople and would have her parents' marriage.

Potty

Potty Report 11 Nov 2012 12:03

Could this be the family in 1851:

1851 Scotland Census
about John McKlesky
Name: John McKlesky
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah McKlesky
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland, Derry
Parish Number: 570
Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
Town: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Old Town
Occupation: Ag Lab
ED: 6
Page: 10 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 47
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1851_122
Household Members: Name Age
John McKlesky 33
Sarah McKlesky 29 b Dalry, Ayrshire
James McKlesky 7 b Lochwinnoch
John McKlesky 3 b Lochwinnoch
Mary McKlesky 11 b Lochwinnoch



Helen

Helen Report 11 Nov 2012 16:18

Well done Potty !

Looks like you've cracked the mystery of the missing birth certificate. The 1841 census with Sarah and Janet as sisters also looking promising.



Possible 1841 for John McLuskey living in Lochwinnoch the year he married Sarah Stevenson.

1841 Scotland Census about John McLuskey
Name: John McLuskey
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Calderhaugh Or Main Or High Street
Occupation: Ag Lab



Follow on to the 1841 census previously posted for the Stevenson family

1851 Scotland Census about Mary Stevenson
Name: Mary Stevenson
Age: 72
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1779
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Greenock, Renfrewshire
Parish Number: 570
Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
Town: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: East End
Occupation: Domestick Appress
ED: 6
Page: 16 (click to see others on page)

Household schedule number: 71
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1851_122
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Stevenson
72
Elizabeth Stevenson
35
Janet Stevenson
30
James Hanney
15
Joseph Ridd
5


Mary: born Greenock, Renfrewshire
Elizabeth: born Ayrshire
*Janet: born Dalry, Ayrshire

James: Grandson, born Lochwinnoch
Joseph: Grandson, born Lochwinnoch

Potty

Potty Report 11 Nov 2012 17:24

Thanks Helen. There is another John McClusky in Lochwinnoch in 1841:

1841 Scotland Census
about John McLusky
Name: John McLusky
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Newton Of Ban
Occupation: Ag Lab
Parish Number: 570

Hope Trena comes back otherwise I shall have to buy some credits on scotlandspeople to check out Margaret's birth!

Trena

Trena Report 11 Nov 2012 21:05

Potty & Helen!

Oh my gosh .. thank you .. THANK YOU Both! I had searched SP (as did the chaps at GROS), using the various options with regards to spelling + wild cards. Never did that Margaret born 1857 come up. Surely all 3 of us couldn't have messed up so. Me yes, but them? I had seen the other census with the different spellings (MCLOSKY, MCKLESKY etc) but not being entirely positive of where Margaret was born & beginning to think it was in Ireland, I didn't want to lay claim to any one family in particular from 1841 to 1871. All this now makes more sense and does look like you have found them all.

Wonder whose boys James & Joseph were? Perhaps Janet too had been previously wed & the 5y old her's. Does it by chance give any indication that one of the sisters was either married or widowed?


AnnCardiff ~ Yes that's Margaret & John's wee daughter Janet, one wk old on 1881 census & she again who wed Charles NELSON. I've contact & have met with their 2 x g-gs in NS. So shall certainly pass this info on to him. He'll be chuffed. Also going to call Margaret's granddaughters, my aunts (93y & 78y), to let them know.


Another bonus I believe is seeing the elderly Mary STEVENSON age 72 in 1841 ~ 1) Janet's 1880 d/c gives parents as John STEVENSON school master deceased & Mary WYLIE deceased. So it does look like they may be the couple who wed c1799 Lochwinnoch.

2) In same 1841 household, are a Sarah and a Jane. I was more inclined to believe that perhaps John had married 2 sisters, rather than being a woman named Sarah Jane or even a completely different STEVENSON.

Again, my sincere thanks and appreciation for the help you three ladies have given.

Warmest regards ~ Trena

Trena

Trena Report 11 Nov 2012 23:48

Hi again Ladies,

Just noticed something else:

1861 census, in John MCCLUSKIE (sic) household in parish of Calton in Glasgow, there is a Joseph KIDD age 15.

1851 census Lochwinnoch in Mary STEVENSON's household is a Joseph RIDD age 5

It would appear that quite possibly the two Joseph's are the same boy. RIDD more likely to be KIDD. Would you ladies agree to there being a possible spelling error?

I'm going to check to see what the originals say ... now that I know where to look!
Still having a problem finding the exact family (Mary STEVENSON, possibly with husband John still living) in 1841. I'm so tired, so may be the reason for difficulties.

Trena

mgnv

mgnv Report 12 Nov 2012 07:46

FreeCEN's version of Helen's posted 1851 - they've not done Lochwinnoch 1841 yet.

1851 Census
Piece: SCT1851/570 Place: Lochwinnoch -Renfrewshire Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: Lochwinnoch Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 450 Page: 16 Schedule: 71
Address: East End
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
STEVENSON Mary Head W F 72 Household Affairs Renfrewshire - Greenock
STEVENSON Elizabeth Dau U F 35 Cotton Reeler Ayrshire - Fenwick
STEVENSON Janet Dau U F 30 Cotton Reeler Ayrshire - Dalry
HANNAY James Grnson U M 15 Cotton Reeler Renfrewshire - Lochwinnoch
KIDD Joseph Grnson - M 5 Renfrewshire - Lochwinnoch

Note respelling of youngest's surname

Potty

Potty Report 12 Nov 2012 10:35

Trena, not too sure about John marrying two sisters - that would definitely have been illegal in England at that time but not sure about Scotland. When you have looked at the original image of Margaret's birth, come back and let us know what it says about her parents.