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Louie (?Louise) Eileen Collins

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 07:58

I am trying to trace my great aunt. She married Robert Alfred Martin/James Arthur Wylie, silversmith, (both names for the groom are on the marriage certificate) on 6/03/1913. Her address is 2 Maldon Villas, Maldon Road, Southend on Sea. Family rumour has her born in Ireland. Father Denis William Collins. There was a daughter who was two at the time of the marriage. Sylvia must have been born in 1911. I cannot find any trace of Louie anywhere. Robert/James emigrated to Australia/New Zealand in 1915 taking Sylvia with him.

Any help to solve this family mystery would be much appreciated.

Jill from New Zealand

Reggie

Reggie Report 10 Nov 2012 08:06

Her names (and her father's) certainly suggest the possibility of her being Irish.

Try the FREE Irish 1901 and 1911 censuses

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

Who witnessed the marriage?

How old was Loui(s)e/a?

What did the husband say about his marital status when he emigrated?

Do you know where Sylvia was born?

What was her surname on the emigration record?

Reggie

Reggie Report 10 Nov 2012 08:11

Have you considered this?

Deaths Sep 1913 (>99%)
Martin Louisa E 27 Islington 1b 263

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 08:20

The witnesses were C Richford and J Richford. They were married in gthe Register Office in Islington, London. The Registrar was Herbert? Tice and the Superintendent Registrar was Alex S McAuliffe.
Family stories say that Sylvia was living with her mother in London and was in contact with her paternal grandmother who eventually took the child to live with her. Louie visited her until the father, grandmother and aunt boarded a ship to the other side of the world. Sylvia was listed as 'Violet' on the passenger list and was stated to be 6 years old whereas she was really only four. No record of marital status of father on passenger list.
I have not been able to find birth of Sylvia.

patchem

patchem Report 10 Nov 2012 08:25

You have not commented on that proposed death.

How are you so sure of the birth year of Sylvia/Violet?

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 08:26

Louisa was 24 in 1913 at her marriage.

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 08:28

Thanks for death info. I will follow that up.

patchem

patchem Report 10 Nov 2012 08:32

Is this Robert/James in 1911?
WYLIE, James Head Single M 30 1881 Silversmith Dealer London Chelsea
MARTIN, Sarah Mother Married31 years F 57 1854 Yorkshire Driffield
MARTIN, Florrie Sister Single F 17 1894 Dressmaker London Islington
MARTIN, Lily Sister Single F 15 1896 Dressmaker London Islington
RG number: RG14 Piece: 802 Reference: RG14PN802 RG78PN28 RD10 SD2 ED3 SN181
Registration District: Islington
Sub District: Upper Holloway Enumeration District: 3 Parish: Islington
Address: 93 Harberton Road Upper Holloway N
County: London

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 08:35

Yes. This census threw us for a while but made sense when we got the marriage certificate.

patchem

patchem Report 10 Nov 2012 08:42

If Louise is your great aunt, who is her brother/sister that is your ancestor?
Thanks.

For info, presumably,
1901 England Census
Robert Martin Age: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Martin
Gender: Male Where born: Shoreditch, London, England
Civil parish: Shoreditch Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: London Country: England
Registration district: Shoreditch Sub-registration district: Hoxton Old Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Household schedule number: 203 Piece: 276 Folio: 160 Page Number: 31
Robert Martin 48
Sarah Martin 47
xxxxx Robert Martin 20
Leonard Martin 18
Melvina Martin 19
Reginald Martin 15
Frances Martin 12
Florence Martin 7
Lily Martin 5
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 276; Folio: 160; Page: 31.

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 08:51

Louise married my uncle Robert Martin. I have spoken to Robert's grandaughter today. She is keen for me to do this research as her mother (Sylvia) died knowing nothing of her mother.

patchem

patchem Report 10 Nov 2012 08:54

Is there an occupation for Louise on the marriage certificate?

I can see Maldon Road on google maps, but not yet located it on 1911 census.

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 09:29

No occupation for Louise

Reggie

Reggie Report 10 Nov 2012 13:14

So Louise/a wasn't technically your great aunt . She was only related by marriage................... being your great-uncle's wife.

Reggie

Reggie Report 10 Nov 2012 13:17

What a bizarre set-up....the man has two totally different names, and so, apparently, does his? daughter

If the story about the mother 'visiting' came from Sylvia/Violet, I would suggest it more likely that her age when they emigrated was indeed 6............had she been only 4, it is unlikely that she would have a memory of such events

Was Robert (or whoever) her natural father?

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 19:38

The mystery has not ended! The passenger list of the 'Arawa' leaving London on 6/08/1915 for New Zealand has him as James BRIGHT!! aged 40 when he was actually 34 along with his mother Mrs Bright 60, Alice Bright 21, dressmaker (Lily Alice Martin) and Violet Bright 6. Sylvia was, according to her grand daughter a small person and tiny child so you wouldn't think a 4 year old could be passed off as a 6 year old .
Sylvia's marriage certificate 1933 has her age as 22 that's why I thought she would have been born in 1911.
The only name I remember the man by was Uncle Bob Bright.
As to paternity I have no reason to doubt at this stage as I can't imagine a man of that era taking on and being a dad to another man's child.
I have ordered the death certificate of Louise Martin (Islington) so if it is the right one it might shed some light on things

patchem

patchem Report 10 Nov 2012 20:14

What is Sylvia's date of birth (from her death certificate)?
Thanks

Unknown

Unknown Report 10 Nov 2012 20:30

birth date 1/02/1911. death 7/05/2002 in Auckland NZ

patchem

patchem Report 10 Nov 2012 20:46

So she should definitely be on the 1911 census.
Thanks

Added:
When you say that you cannot find Sylvia's birth, have you applied for any Sylvia or Violet Collins's birth certificates?

Reggie

Reggie Report 10 Nov 2012 22:48

How do you know that the birth date you have for her is 100% accurate? Only a birth cert can tell you that.............and even then there can be discrepancies

IF..............the 1913 death turns out to be the woman you're looking for, you will have to accept that the likelihood of a 2-year-old being aware of what was going on as remote in the extreme.

How have you managed to ascertain that a man calling himself James Bright in 1915 was in fact the person you have identifed in censuses