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In 1916 James Arthur Bright enlisted in the NZ army - embarked that year. In December 1917 he was in Chelsea Hospital (Pay book says he received 3s 6d on 4/12/1917. Pay book was signed off 1/1/1918. I have a letter from him to my grandmother dated 6/6/1918 mentioning that he was still trying to shake off trench fever. I can't find any details of his postings in NZ Army records. Would there be any records from Chelsea Hospital I could access?

Family story has it that Louie/se was not looking after Sylvia to grandmother Sarah's standards so the child was taken to live at Harberton Road. Good point about address on marriage certificate. The whole things smacks of kidnap to me. Robert/James may, according to yet another family rumour have had gambling debts. You would think a silversmith would have enough money to pay his own passage to wherever but his brother John footed the bill. I haven't found any definite births to apply for a cert. yet.

Burial Register summary
last name Martin first names Louisa Elizabeth Burial date 10 Sep 1913 Authority London Borough of Islington Location Islington Cemetery (Islington)

(possibly the 1913 Death, from below link)

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

Chris :)

You have said that family stories claim Sylvia living with her Mother in London.
Louie's address on wedding certificate is Southend, not London.
Do you mean visiting her after the marriage?
Does not make sense.
Why would they marry in 1913, then emigrate only 2 years later without her - unless she has died?
Could Sylvia have been born in Ireland?
If Louie had died then they could take Sylvia even if she is not Robert's/James's daughter?
When you say about not finding her birth, have you applied for any birth certificates?
Robert/James seems to be the one changing names, as family keep the same ones until after the 1901 census? So, do not believe anything he says?
Any family story as to why Louie left behind?
Too many questions, sorry.

The memory this child had could have been from family conversations and not actual recollection of an event

James Bright aka James Wylie was my grandmother's(Frances) oldest brother. In the 1911 census James Wylie was the head of the house and Sarah Martin was his mother. Florence (died 6/03/1913 same day as the Wylie/Martin Collins marriage) and Lily were his sisters.

When it came time for Sylvia to get the pension she had a problem because she didn't have a birth certificate. I don't know how she overcame that.

How do you know that the birth date you have for her is 100% accurate? Only a birth cert can tell you that.............and even then there can be discrepancies

IF..............the 1913 death turns out to be the woman you're looking for, you will have to accept that the likelihood of a 2-year-old being aware of what was going on as remote in the extreme.

How have you managed to ascertain that a man calling himself James Bright in 1915 was in fact the person you have identifed in censuses

So she should definitely be on the 1911 census.
Thanks

Added:
When you say that you cannot find Sylvia's birth, have you applied for any Sylvia or Violet Collins's birth certificates?

birth date 1/02/1911. death 7/05/2002 in Auckland NZ

What is Sylvia's date of birth (from her death certificate)?
Thanks

The mystery has not ended! The passenger list of the 'Arawa' leaving London on 6/08/1915 for New Zealand has him as James BRIGHT!! aged 40 when he was actually 34 along with his mother Mrs Bright 60, Alice Bright 21, dressmaker (Lily Alice Martin) and Violet Bright 6. Sylvia was, according to her grand daughter a small person and tiny child so you wouldn't think a 4 year old could be passed off as a 6 year old .
Sylvia's marriage certificate 1933 has her age as 22 that's why I thought she would have been born in 1911.
The only name I remember the man by was Uncle Bob Bright.
As to paternity I have no reason to doubt at this stage as I can't imagine a man of that era taking on and being a dad to another man's child.
I have ordered the death certificate of Louise Martin (Islington) so if it is the right one it might shed some light on things

What a bizarre set-up....the man has two totally different names, and so, apparently, does his? daughter

If the story about the mother 'visiting' came from Sylvia/Violet, I would suggest it more likely that her age when they emigrated was indeed 6............had she been only 4, it is unlikely that she would have a memory of such events

Was Robert (or whoever) her natural father?

So Louise/a wasn't technically your great aunt . She was only related by marriage................... being your great-uncle's wife.

No occupation for Louise

Is there an occupation for Louise on the marriage certificate?

I can see Maldon Road on google maps, but not yet located it on 1911 census.

Louise married my uncle Robert Martin. I have spoken to Robert's grandaughter today. She is keen for me to do this research as her mother (Sylvia) died knowing nothing of her mother.

If Louise is your great aunt, who is her brother/sister that is your ancestor?
Thanks.

For info, presumably,
1901 England Census
Robert Martin Age: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Martin
Gender: Male Where born: Shoreditch, London, England
Civil parish: Shoreditch Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: London Country: England
Registration district: Shoreditch Sub-registration district: Hoxton Old Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Household schedule number: 203 Piece: 276 Folio: 160 Page Number: 31
Robert Martin 48
Sarah Martin 47
xxxxx Robert Martin 20
Leonard Martin 18
Melvina Martin 19
Reginald Martin 15
Frances Martin 12
Florence Martin 7
Lily Martin 5
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 276; Folio: 160; Page: 31.

Yes. This census threw us for a while but made sense when we got the marriage certificate.

Is this Robert/James in 1911?
WYLIE, James Head Single M 30 1881 Silversmith Dealer London Chelsea
MARTIN, Sarah Mother Married31 years F 57 1854 Yorkshire Driffield
MARTIN, Florrie Sister Single F 17 1894 Dressmaker London Islington
MARTIN, Lily Sister Single F 15 1896 Dressmaker London Islington
RG number: RG14 Piece: 802 Reference: RG14PN802 RG78PN28 RD10 SD2 ED3 SN181
Registration District: Islington
Sub District: Upper Holloway Enumeration District: 3 Parish: Islington
Address: 93 Harberton Road Upper Holloway N
County: London