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susannah lisle/lyall/coke/cook

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Nov 2012 17:32

Shirley, it certainly seems that they had the same dad.

Shirley

Shirley Report 18 Nov 2012 17:00

Hi agasin
So are we assuming then that louisa, william henry and charles have the same father after all. ?? is that a possibility anyway? I have not managed to find a death for this william coke, cook man. But they could be calling him one of three names so maybe thats why. We know he was dead before 1892 anyway. Very confusing. I just think that all this name changing even between lines on a certificate confuses things.
thanks again.
shirley
i have a lot of new info to give to the cooks when i see them next week now, they will be overjoyed. :-)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 22:22

FindMyPast transcribes James Frederick's name as Cook in 1911, and that is definitely what it was written as on the original form (form completed by John Pickles).

MCGARRAGIN, John Head Married M 52 1859 Labourer Outdoor Manchester Lancs
MCGARRAGIN, Louisa Wife Married7 years F 45 1866 Plymouth Devonshire
COOK, James Frederick Step-Son Single M 20 1891 Weaver Cotton Clitheroe Lancashire
PICKLES, John Step-Son Single M 18 1893 Twister In A Cotton Barnoldswick Yorkshire
PICKLES, Florrie Step-Daughter F 14 1897 At School Barnoldswick Yorkshire
PICKLES, Edmondson Step-Son M 10 1901 Barnoldswick Yorkshire
MCGARRAGIN, Thomas Son M 6 1905 Barnoldswick Yorkshire
MCGARRAGIN, John Son M 4 1907 Barnoldswick Yorkshire

RG number: RG14 Piece: 25772
Reference: RG14PN25772 RG78PN1484 RD485 SD3 ED14 SN269
Registration District: Skipton
Sub District: Barnoldswick
Enumeration District: 14
Parish: Barnoldswick

Address: 8 Stuart Street Barnoldswick County: Yorkshire (West riding)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 22:03

Baptism of three of Louisa's children:

Name Baptism Date Parish Parent Names
John Pickles 1 Oct 1893 Barnoldswick Edmondson, Louisa
Florrie Pickles 27 Jun 1897 Barnoldswick Edmondson, Louisa
Louis Pickles 21 May 1899 Barnoldswick Edmondson, Louisa

Louis sadly died:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: Louie Pickles
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1899
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Skipton
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9a
Page: 25

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 22:00

I think Louisa's first husband's name was actually Edmondson:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: Edmondson Pickles
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1900
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Skipton
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9a
Page: 28

(There's also his first marriage in that name)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 21:51

Shirley, you said the 1901 showed Fred James with a half brother and sister - there was another child:

PICKLES, Louisa Head Widow F 36 1865 Charwoman Plymouth, Devonshire
PICKLES, Fred J Coke Son Single M 9 1892 Clitheroe, Lancashire
PICKLES, John Son Single M 7 1894 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
PICKLES, Florrie Daughter F 3 1898 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
PICKLES, Edmondson Son M 0 (6 MOS) 1901 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire

Piece: 4028 Folio: 73 Page: 7
Registration District: Skipton
Civil Parish: Barnoldswick

Address: Clough Fold, Barnoldswick County: Yorkshire (West riding)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 21:44

Louisa's first marriage gives us Cooke, Coke and Cook all on one record!

Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936

Name: Louisa Coke, spinster of parish. Weaver
Age: 37
Birth Year: abt 1855
Marriage Date: 11 Dec 1892
Parish: Barnoldswick
Spouse: Edward Pickles, widower of Colne. Weaver
Spouse Age: 62
Father: William Henry Coke (deceased) - joiner (written as Cook on register)
Spouse Father: David Pickles (deceased) - weaver
Reference Number: Pr 3440/1/20

Witnesses: Earl ? Ware ?? and Anne Atkinson.

Louisa's surname originally written on register as Cooke then one of the o's crossed out.

I suspect that 10 years was added to her age so the gap between her and Edward didn't look so bad.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 21:15

Here's Charles & Mary Ann's marriage:

Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Mary Ann Nuttall, spinster - a weaver
Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1872
Marriage Date: 7 Jul 1894
Parish: Barnoldswick
Spouse: Charles Cook, bachelor - a weaver
Spouse Age: 22
Father: Robert Nuttall - slater
Spouse Father: William Cook (deceased) - carpenter
Reference Number: Pr 3440/1/20

Witnesses: William Henry Coke and Emily Nuttall

(I'm guessing that William Henry was his brother)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 21:11

Have found Mary Ann Nuttall's baptism:

Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: Mary Ann Nuttall
Birth Date: 22 Oct 1871
Baptism Date: 26 Apr 1877
Parish: Barnoldswick
Father: Robert Nuttall - slater and plasterer.
Mother: Jane Nuttall
Reference Number: Pr 3440/1/50

States she was baptised at home. Possibly she wasn't baptised as a baby and was maybe very ill as a child hence the home baptism. Obviously survived.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 20:56

1901 indicates that it was Mary Ann Nuttall that Charles married:

COOK, Charles Head Married M 29 1872 Cotton Weaver Holsworthy, Devonshire
COOK, Mary A Wife Married F 29 1872 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
COOK, Ivy S Daughter F 6 1895 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
COOK, Violet Daughter F 4 1897 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
COOK, Winifred Daughter F 1 1900 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
COOK, Charles H Son M 0 (2 MOS) 1901 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire

Piece: 4028 Folio: 53 Page: 47
Registration District: Skipton
Civil Parish: Barnoldswick

Address: Clifford Street, Barnoldswick County: Yorkshire (West riding)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 20:24

You said that Charles b1871 had a son called Frank, but there's no mention of him on the 1911:

COOK, Charles Head Widower M 40 1871 Cotton Weaver Devonshire Holsworthy
COOK, Ivy Susannah Daughter Single F 17 1894 House Keeping Yorkshire Barnoldswick
COOK, Violet Daughter Single F 15 1896 Cotton Weaver Yorkshire Barnoldswick
COOK, Winifred Daughter F 12 1899 School Yorkshire Barnoldswick
COOK, Charles Haddon Son M 11 1900 School Yorkshire Barnoldswick
COOK, Jane Marie Daughter F 10 1901 School Yorkshire Barnoldswick
COOK, Doris Daughter F 6 1905 Yorkshire Barnoldswick
COOK, Robert Henry Son M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Yorkshire Barnoldswick

RG number: RG14 Piece: 25770
Reference: RG14PN25770 RG78PN1484 RD485 SD3 ED12 SN172
Registration District: Skipton
Sub District: Barnoldswick
Enumeration District: 12
Parish: Barnoldswick

Address: 7 East Avenue Barnoldswick Via Colne County: Yorkshire (West riding)

On the original image it says 9 children born alive, 7 still living (all seem to be accounted for on the census) and 3 had died. Either the sums are wrong or one baby may have been stillborn.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Nov 2012 20:18

I wonder if the son's name was meant to be Aidan but because of literacy issues it had an unusual variety of spellings?

EDIT: Just found this:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Charles Haddon Cook
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1901
Registration district: Skipton
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9a
Page: 30

Shirley

Shirley Report 16 Nov 2012 19:29

Just to add , i have found the family of charles cook on the 1911 census in barnoldswick. his son is down as charles haddon cook born in 1900. So i am wondering if thats the eden cook i found in 1900 born in skipton? Its an unusual name eden/haddon. He was actually known as haddon/adan/eden as well, probably because charles was his dadfs name. And they are defiantely called cook, not coke.

Shirley

Shirley Report 16 Nov 2012 17:26

Hi again
The brother or perhaps half brother of louisa coke/cook , charles, born in 1871 had two sons, one named frank and one with the unusual name of Adan? i cant find their births . The couple i am helping said that they were always called cook. They would have been born in barnoldswick-skipton registration district in the 1890's. But like you say. just because charles and the children were always called cook , does not necessarily mean that they were coke, and just changed spelling in error. And louisa was always coke, well maiden name anyway.
i have found a charles cook marrying a mary nuttall or a jane scrivener , not sure which one he married, which would be about right for time of charles's marriage. :-)

Found a birth of an eden cook in skipton in 1900, which could be the son of charles.

Shirley

Shirley Report 16 Nov 2012 15:58

Hi Marieceleste
Thisa couple whose tree it is are absolutely lovely, been married about sixty odd years and have been on radio, they are so funny. So my friend and i are trying to help them. You have to go gently when saying they really need to get certificates, they are of the generation that takes care with their money. I am of the same opinion about the second cook marriage, not certain that there is one. louisa married an edward pickles, then a john mcgarrigan . On the 1901 census before she married john mcgarrigan, james pickles, otherwise james coke was written down as fred j coke pickles. And on the 1911 census he was known as james frederick cork. But on his birth certificate he was definately frederick james coke. It is all very confusing.
The 1901 shows louisa as pickles aged 36, with fred james and his half brother and sister john pickles aged 7 and florrie pickles aged 3.
thanks for your help on this .
regards
shirley :-)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 15 Nov 2012 20:28

You're very welcome Shirley!

I'm not too sure that Susannah ever married a Mr Cook - the 1871 shows the whole family as Cook, even Louisa and Susannah is a widow.

Will see if I can dig up any more possibilities.

Shirley

Shirley Report 15 Nov 2012 20:08

Hi again
I have advised them to get certificates, and they have quite a lot but you are right, they need to get the william coke and susannah lyle one and also maybe find the date and then get the certificate of the second marriage of susannah to a cook after the death of william coke. They are elderly and are naturally careful with their outgoings. I too thought that coke and cook were just a misspelling, but they were insistent that the certificates of william h and charles cook had defiantely cook and a different dad to louisa's william coke. But as they had seen them lots of years ago their memories
are not as reliable . it is always best to have proof , and i think they do realise they may have to buy more certificates to be sure once and for all.
thanks again
shirley :-)

Shirley

Shirley Report 15 Nov 2012 19:51

Hi again
Thanks for that. Yes. i think yiou may be right. The new william coke fits in better and is more susannas age. i will tell the cooks (yes they still call themselves cook even though it should be coke), to get william and susannahs marriage certificate. This will at least then give fathers names for each of them.
thanks for your help with this confusing family .
shirley

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 15 Nov 2012 19:47

Shirley, never trust anyone else's trees!!
Sounds as though they've found someone with the same name and forced them to fit. Bear in mind that the name could easily have been misrecorded so other options need to be checked. The name Cooke becomes Coke if you drop an "o" and Cook if you drop an "e" so it's easy for them to get mixed up.

As I said before you really need to get the marriage certificate.

Shirley

Shirley Report 15 Nov 2012 19:44

Hi again
I think the man whose tree it is has found william coke married to jane on the 1861 and he was a carpenter living in holsworthy. But i am wondering if this was the correct william coke, and maybe the william coke who married susannah lyle in 1865 could have been son of william coke senior, with mother jane? its very confusing. They have louisa coke's birth certificate which says her father is william coke , carpenter. The only one they find is william coke aged 72 in 1865.