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thanks Ann ,
I can understand it better now,and thanks for clarifying the wedding details for John and Emma.The surname Day came up as a witness in all 3 marriages here so may be very close relatives,Thomas Day twice and James Day once.
Pat

Hi Pat

Sorry-more haste.............

Looking at it again I am not sure about the marriage of William Breakspear and Sarah-they baptised 4 children and then it was William and Elizabeth (see below)
I cannot see a buriel for Sarah or a marriage for William Breakspear to an Elizabeth ?-so better leave William & Sarah out !

s=son of
d= daughter of
botp=both of this parish

The name transcribed is Emery -not Emma-but is possibly meant to be Emma mis heard by the Vicar ?

I was just trying to show that the name Emery was present in more than one entry-the first "Emery" died as an infant

The second one seems to have survived and is ? your Emma

I thought you had the marriage

22 December 1801
John BREAKSPEAR bach
Emma SALMON sp botp
Wit=Elizabeth Parker/Thomas Day

John and Emma baptised a daughter at Chipping Norton
21 Aug 1803-Ann

William Breakspear & Elizabeth ? (marriage not found) baptised
04 Jun 1773-William
08 May 1775-Ann
12 Apr 1777-John
02 Jan 1779-Mary
21 Oct 1781-Thomas
22 Jul 1785-Jemima

I hope I have not confused you more :-S

Thanks Ann thats interesting . Pat

one of my Breakspear's - Robert - was transported to Oz in 1832 - so now there are Breakspear's over there too

Last name: Breakspear
Recorded in a number of spelling forms including Breakspear, Brakespear and Braksper, this is a rare English surname of probably pre medieval origins, and the name of the only British pope, Nicholas Breakspear, elected in 1159, and known as Adrian 1V. Rather unpopishly the meaning is believed to relate to success in combat or more likely in the famous tournaments, where the victor usually succeeded by either unhorsing his opponent, or by breaking his spear. In the 12th century there were similar surnames. Richard Brekesward (break sword) being recorded in Lincoln in 1195, whilst Stephen Bruselance (break lance) appears in the register of the abbey of Ramsey in Suffolk in the year 1308, and Martin Briselaunce in the register of the landowners of the county of Devon in 1312. More recent research by the late Professor P H Reaney has however suggested that the origin (like that of Shalespeare) may in some instances at least, be more Chaucerian. It seems that the Olde English pre 7th century word 'speare' can have at least two meanings, one of which is highly personal! What is certain is that this surname is one of the earliest recorded and early examples include Alexander Brekespere in the rolls of Lincoln known as the Curia Regis, for the year 1199, and Geoffrey Brekesper in the Curia Regis rolls for Surry in 1206. These rolls were essentially used to record and collect the necessary tax to enable firstly Richard, the Lionheart, (1189 - 1199) to continue his 'crusades' in the Holy Land, and for his successor, his brother King John, (1199 - 1216) to pick up the debt.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Breakspear#ixzz2CasfWjLL

I must be the northern anomaly, I dont understand the posts either :-S

Sorry Elizabeth :-)


So, Jill, you didnt choke on your food then ;-)

Hi Elizabeth
Not sure ,as I'm not used to looking at parish records.Can I ask you to help me here on a few details? You're going to think I'm really thick here.
The baptism date of 1777 could well be our John ,with his parents names.As we haven't found anything before from his side, these are all new names to me.What does the small "s" stand for beside his name?
I think I can work out that the 2nd name is a child that died,am I right,buried 22.10.1771,is that what the small "d" means? Then I would say they had another child in 1775.What does the "emery (sic)" mean on both these and did this child die too?
I can understand the marriage by licence bit 1756 /1762 and the witnesses.What does "botp and sp botp" mean?
Where does it say about John and Emma's marriage.?
Hope you wont mind me asking these things,look forward to hearing back from you . Pat

I have the Chipping Norton parish register transcripts-do you think this is the John and Emma you are looking for ?

Baptisms
12 April 1777-John BREAKSPEAR s William & Elizabeth

26 Jan 1771-Emery (sic) SALMON d John & Ann-Bur 22 Oct 1771 inf

21 Sept 1775-Emery (sic) SALMON d John & Ann

Marriage-21 October 1756 by Lic
John SALMON woolstapeller
Anne CLARKE sp botp
Wit=John Clarke/Thomas Day

Marriage-16 May 1762 by Lic
William BREAKSPEAR
Sarah HOWBROUGH botp
Wit=John Brayne/James Day

The marriage in 1801 is John and EMMA !!

I'm sure that's right Pat. I read as a child that in England everyone was related to everyone else within twenty generations. I wouldn't be at all surprised given just us few chatting on here today finding connections either by name or place.

Jill.
A wise man once said,if you stood 6 people in a line,the 1st and the 5th would be related to each other.So you never know. Pat

Just been and looked at tree my cousin holds on here. No Breakspear/es mentioned. Would have been wicked to find connection to you lovely people.

Not sure of course that you would feel that way ;-)

Pat. All the ordinary and normal people in this land are north of the Watford Gap :-D

Gins. Back at you with extra :-D :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P

My maternal paternal Busby line came from Chipping Norton, Coombe and surrounding. Wonder if they might have known each other.

Added: Apologies to those nice normal people who live south of it but I think you know what I mean. ;-) <3

Chris Thank you,this could be a relation, Pat

Gins you are a gem .Sounds like you're from North of Watford like me?

Jill :-P


:-D


Pat at least you know where Emma Salman was born now :-D

Hi Ann
I read somewhere that the brewery had been taken over by another firm,this was some time ago, (can't remember the name for the life of me),but they were still using the names of the beers.I didn't know they were connected to Huntley and Palmer biscuits.Crumbs!! Pat

Gins. Shakes head. Did you think I just bring alcohol into the subject just because I bring alcholol into the subject? :-D

Going to eat. Back in a bit.

1851 England Census

Name: John Breakspear
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808
Relation: Head
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 2061
Folio: 288
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
John Breakspear 43
Elizabeth Breakspear 15
John Breakspear 13
John Tilstey 13


Pallot's Marriage Index for England: 1780 - 1837
Name: John Breakspear
Spouse: Mary Hunt
Marriage Date: 1827
Parish: Chipping Norton Oxfordshire

Burial (if related)

First name(s): Ann
Last name: BREAKSPEAR
Date of burial 30 Jun 1807
Age at death: 4
Calculated year of birth: 1803
Place of burial Kings Langley
Dedication: All Saints
County: Hertfordshire
Kings Langley All Saints:
Denomination: Anglican
Coverage 1800 - 1852
Data provider: Hertfordshire Family & Population History

Chris :)

Pat

Ive added who is living next door to Emma

x