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We have been in touch with Annie's grandson and have a few photos but many of them were destroyed by a jealous 2nd wife (of Annie's daughter's widowed husband) a while back......

Teresa x

You could try following Annie (the daughter) born c1898 - she was old enough when they 'adopted' Thomas to remember some details.

Perhaps she passed them on down the family?

Dea x

Thanks Dea & Flip for your efforts. You've pretty much come to the same conclusions as I have.

Without a marriage certifcate for Thomas Jones & Mary Clarke I can't get back any further. All the likely candidates we've found so far can be found on the 1911 census - which means they can't be my grandparents. :-(

Teresa x

Me too Flip! :-(

Dea x

Dea,don't know about you but I can't find any connection between the adoptive parents to the natural parents. Can see both John William Ashworth and Ann Chapman through the census but no connection with either natural parent. There won't be any adoption records either as it is too early.

Without having a clue as to where the natural parents were born it will be almost impossible to find them with any certainty as their names are too common. Also being a dock labourer could mean Thomas moved to the area for work and could have been born anywhere.

Don't know what to suggest, sorry

<3

Well, this is the marriage of John Ashworth + Ann (Chapman)

Marriage: 24 Mar 1894 St Philip, Salford, Lancashire, England
John William Ashworth - 24 Clerk Bachelor of 1 Market Square
Ann Chapman - 23 Stitcher Spinster of 1 Market Square
Groom's Father: Charles Ashworth, (dead), Labourer
Bride's Father: James Chapman, Carter
Witness: Hannah Chapman; Agnes Ashworth
Married by Banns by: H. Browning
Register: Marriages 1891 - 1900, Page 65, Entry 130
Source: Parish Register


1891:
CHAPMAN, James Head Married M 64 1827 Carter
Over Alderley, Cheshire VIEW
CHAPMAN, Ann Wife Married F 65 1826
Davyhulme, Lancashire VIEW
CHAPMAN, Mary Daughter Single F 33 1858
Salford, Lancashire VIEW
CHAPMAN, James Son Single M 29 1862 Carter
Salford, Lancashire VIEW
CHAPMAN, Ralph Son Single M 22 1869 Coachman
Salford, Lancashire VIEW
CHAPMAN, Ann Daughter Single F 20 1871 Machine Sticker
Salford, Lancashire VIEW

Piece: 3215
Folio: 79
Page: 14
Registration District: Salford
Civil Parish: Salford
Municipal Borough: Salford
Address: 1, Market Square, Salford
County: Lancashire

Dea x

Hi Dea,

Yes, we found that info on the Lancashire Parish Database. Thomas lived at 26 Peru Street after he was adopted by the Ashworth family. This baptism took place 16 days after the death of his father. We've been trying to find out whether the Ashworths were related to either Thomas senior or Mary, with no success yet. I have been in contact with descendants of the Ashworths, but we have no idea if we are blood-relatives.

Teresa

Ok, I just came back to rule out that marriage, but you've beat me to it!

What date did Thomas die? - just curious whether Thomas jnr was christened before his death or after.

Thanks Flip,

That's one advantage of an FMP membership then, the ability to search an address on the census!

FMP also shows the 'other woman' in the Sep 1907 marriages above as Jane Roberts. 1911 census shows John H Leadbetter with wife Mary A having been married 4 years living in West Derby, Liverpool.

Teresa

Baptisms: 26 Oct 1910 St Philip, Salford, Lancashire, England
Thomas Jones - Child of Thomas Jones & Mary
Abode: 26 Peru Street, Salford
Occupation: Dock Labourer
Baptised by: J. G. Simpson
Register: Baptisms 1883 - 1914, Page 476, Entry 3845
Source: LDS Film 1408660

This is the address he was living at in 1911 with John + Ann Ashworth.

Dea x

Unfortunately Mary Ann Clark on 1907 marriage married John Henry Leadbetter.

Dea x

There is a 17 Ogden Street, Stretford on the 1911 census though! It's on FMP so I don't know who was living there in 1911.

Have you considered this marriage?

Marriages Sep 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CLARK Mary Ann Liverpool 8b 259
JONES Thomas Henry Liverpool 8b 259
LEADBETTER John Henry Liverpool 8b 259

There's a bride missing from freebmd though so no sure who married Mary Clark.

Thanks for all your posts.

Mary died of valvular heart disease, her death was notified by her husband, Thomas. Thomas died later the same year (1910) of TB. He was in the Patricroft Workhouse Infirmary (the master of the workhouse notified the death), but under 'occupation' on his death cert it states 'dock labourer of 17 Ogden Street, Stretford'. We believe the '17' to be a mistake. On the 1901 census the house numbers only went to 11, there being a factory on the other side of the road. On Thomas junior's 1908 birth cert, his father's occupation is 'general labourer'.

Teresa

This one is a railway worker living in Manchester

1901

Thomas Jones
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Mother's Name: Jane Jones

Where born: Whitchurch, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Ardwick St Benedict


Thomas Jones 24 - Railway Carter - Whitchurch
Jane Jones 52 - Mother - Whitchurch
Walter Jones 18 - brother - Manchester

deleted so as not to confused as incorrect

What did Mary die of?

Rose

Who were the informants on the death certs? What was Thomas' occupation?

Rose

We haven't found any other children, and we haven't found them as a couple in 1901. But both are possibilities. However, if my Dad was adopted, why weren't any other children - unless they'd died.

I've had a few suggestions tonight, but until I find the marriage, I can't prove or disprove any of them.

Teresa

Where there any other children?

Have you looked for them in 1901?

Rose

Mary was 30 in 1910 so a 1885 marriage is out of the question.

Rose