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Hi Eringobragh,
James and Alice married in Neath 1912.
Although Emma says the marriage states he was 20yrs old, his baptism cert was in his wife's possession stating he was born in 1889.
This suggests was around 23-24yrs at time of marriage.

Emma.....If grandma has the Baptismal Cert then take it as read that is the correct info
.For the time period in question those (RC) travelling from Ireland usually took with them a copy of their Baptismal Cert.which would show the details from the original Baptismal Reg. Baptism took precedence over everything it was needed for all manner of things...especially marriage....equally the date of the Baptism would be an indicator of the Birth date...Baptism was done as soon as possible following the Birth.
Assuming they were married in Church then the details of his Baptism and perhaps Confirmation would /should be recorded in the Marriage Register at the Church they were married in Neath.A lot depended on the PP at the time exactly what info.he required and what he actually recorded.
Another thing to consider is that he may have needed permission to marry from a senior member of family given he was under the age of 21...that would also show in the Church Reg.but not on MC.

Sorry for the misunderstanding I should have said at the start thank you again for your help I will look at the 1901 census as this sounds like the right James Hayes

Emma

Apologies Emma,
I honestly thought that all your info came from your contact.
As your grandmother was in possession of this baptismal cert, I see no reason to doubt that this was her husband's.

Sorry Anne my Grandmother had a copy of James Hayes baptism cert (Her father) and MC to Alice Bowen but all other information has been given to me by a long distant relative.

Potty: James Hayes was a Boarder in 16 Parade, Neath in the 1911 census

Thanks Anne I will look at that census as James would have been around 13years old in 1901

I think I see where the problem lies.
Eringobragh has already posted this.....

1901
.Residents of a house 20 in Irishtown (New Ross Urban, Wexford)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion
Hayes Catherine 50 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic b Kilkenny
Hayes Patrick 27 Male Son Roman Catholic b New Ross
Hayes James 23 Male Son Roman Catholic ** b New Ross

The original census does say that this James was 23yrs old but his occupation is SCHOLAR.
Was he 13yrs old?

Emma, can you post the 1911 census for James? I cannot find it.

Emma,
Am I misunderstanding?
Who had the baptism cert? Do you mean your grandmother?

If your grandmother had his baptismal cert, then I doubt that he was anyone else.

If they had an RC marriage, I think James may have been required to produce this at the time.

Hi Eringobragh1916

The witnesses of James Hayes and Alice Bowen MC were a Pearson and Kenny so I don't think they were any relation and also James Hayes came over from Ireland on his own according to my grandmother to work.

It has thrown me a bit why she would have this baptism cert if it wasn't for the same James Hayes.

Emma....Who were the witnessess on the MC...
Have you tried to locate any other Hayes in the area on the 1911 Census?
Its not beyond realms posibilities that there were other family members around....

Hi Potty

His second name was Joseph.

Emma

Oh yes I see now it does say birth Sept 1888.

He is living in Neath,Wales on the 1911 census which I have a copy of.

Yes you could be right about the baptism cert as both 1911census and his marriage cert in 1912 states he's 20 which doesn't correspond with the baptism cert.

Many Thanks for your help :-)

There are James Hayes births registered in New Ross in both 1888 and 1889:

Name: James Hayes
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1888
Registration district: New Ross
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 4
Page: 638

Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958
about James Hayes
Name: James Hayes
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1889
Registration district: New Ross
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 4
Page: 629

What was his second name?

Hi Emma,
DC means death certificate

Unfortunately, there will be no passenger lists. Ireland was part of the UK at this time .
I could not find him on any 1911 census in Wales.

I am trying to determine if the 1889 baptism is for the SAME man who married Alice Bowen.

Assuming this mother's name is on the baptism, then it does suggest that Thomas and Catherine married in Kilkenny in 1875 and moved to New Ross.

Hi Anne

Yes the baptism cert states both Thomas and Catherines names and also James Hayes marriage cert of Alice Bowen states his father was Thomas Hayes.

Sorry what does DC stand for?

James J Hayes married in Swansea in 1912 so I have tried looking for passenger lists from Ireland to Wales between 1903-1905 as my grandmother said he came over when he was 14-16 but unable to find any at present.

Thanks

Hi Emma and Eringobragh,
Emma your contact says that your James was the son of Thomas Hayes and Catherine Finn.
According to rootsireland.ie this couple married in KILKENNY in 1875.
This site has only one birth showing for them, A child called Mary also born in 1875 in Kilkenny.

According to your info, James was born in 1889 in Wexford.
His DC on anc says he was born Sep 1888?
Does his baptism cert to confirn he was the son of Thomas Hayes AND Catherine Finn? Or does it give only a father's name?

Yeah now you'v mentioned it it does sound strange having a 15 year gap as they usually start a family as soon as their married.

Thank you for those links.

The Baptism record just says "Parish of New Ross, Diocese of "Ferns" (not sure of the spelling) by the Rev N Roche.

Emma

Morning Emma...

1901/1911 Census Free

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

The other info.is from Familysearch .org.

which also shows the info.from Pedigree Res.

I am suprised there is a gap of some 15 years without any children however there may well have been others and the children are not showing....It all depends on what Primary Source material your relative has used..if they have taken only the info.from the site mentioned above then it would show only 4 children..

Does it give an Church address for James J Baptism....?

On James J Hayes and Alice Bowens marriage cert his fathers name is Thomas Hayes (Deceased). I have James J Hayes Register of Baptism record and that is how I have got this parents name.

A distant relative has given me the research he has done but somethings do not add up so I thought id start at the bottom and work myself up.

Thank you for you help I will order their marriage cert and go from there.

Eringobragh1916 - Where did you find this information so I can have a look myself. According to a relative they married 1865 in Wexford and had 4 children between 1880-1889.

Many Thanks

Do you have the 1912 marriage cert for James J Hayes and Alice Bowen?
If so, what was his father's name?