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findmypast look up please

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 14:06

I'm pretty sure Frances Chantler is Frances Clout, Eliza's sister and Mary Annie's maternal aunt.

The forename, age and birthplace of both women is the same.

What I can't work out is what happened to Frances/Fanny between census 1851 when she was a single servant, and 1871 when she was with John Chantler, other than the likely marriage to Henry Walter Wise.

I can't find Frances under any identity in census 1861.

ManfromMars

ManfromMars Report 1 Dec 2012 10:55

Dear Kucinta,
I have had a go to try and work this one out but its a bit of a headbanger,

Thankyou so much for all your time spent,

Best wishes mfm

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 06:04

A possible marriage for Frances - maybe why she couldn't/didn't marry John?


groom's name: Henry Walter Wise
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Frances Clout
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 21 Oct 1855
marriage place: Ticehurst,Sussex,England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M01384-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 892355

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 05:12

Census 1851 shows Frances/Fanny as being born Ticehurst:

Name: Fanny Clout
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Servant
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Ticehurst, Sussex, England<<<<<<<<
Civil parish: Wadhurst
Town: Wadhurst
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 05:02

Census 1871 confirms Mary Annie Wright, (later Cottingham), was indeed Alfred Clifton's stepdaughter.

Address: Wood's Green, Wadhurst County: Sussex

CLIFTON, Alfred Head M 39 1832 Sussex
CLIFTON, Eliza Wife F 31 1840 Sussex
WRIGHT, Charles Step-Son M 9 1862 Sussex
WRIGHT, Henry W Step-Son M 8 1863 Sussex
WRIGHT, Frank Step-Son M 6 1865 Sussex
>>WRIGHT, Mary A Step-Daughter F 4 1867 Sussex
CLIFTON, Alfred J Son M 0 1871 Sussex
BALDWIN, William Boarder M 19 1852 Sussex

So I strongly suspect that Frances Clout, aunt to Mary Annie Cottingham nee Wright by being sister to Mary Annie's mother Eliza Clifton, formerly Wright, nee Clout, somehow ended up with John 'Harry' Chantler.

I can't find a marriage to confirm this, but perhaps one or both of them had an impediment in the form of a prior/existing marriage?

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 04:58

First marriage for Eliza Clout?

Marriages Jun 1859
Clarke Horace Tunbridge 2a 576
>>>Clout Eliza Tunbridge 2a 576
Weeks Eleanor Tunbridge 2a 576
>>>Wright Robert Tunbridge 2a 576


Second marriage for Eliza?

Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
>>Clifton Alfred Ticehurst 2b 176
DIBLEY Caroline Killick Ticehurst 2b 176
Wickens Stephen Ticehurst 2b 176
>>WRIGHT Eliza Ticehurst 2b 176

England, Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: Alfred Clifton
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Eliza Wright
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 31 Oct 1869
marriage place: Wadhurst, Sussex, England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: I02335-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1894334
reference number: 33

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 04:52

It might be co-incidence, but I think Eliza Clifton, mother of Mary Annie Coddington nee Wright, was nee Clout, and she had a sister called Frances Clout born c1834 and both Clout girls were living in Ticehurst in 1841:

What I can't find is the union of a Frances Clout to John Chantler.

Census 1841:

Name: Frances Clout
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Gender: Female
Where born: Sussex, England
Civil parish: Ticehurst
Hundred: Shoyswell
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

View image
Registration district: Ticehurst
Sub-registration district: Ticehurst
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1109
Book: 8
Page Number: 1


Name Age
Charles Clout 35
Mary Clout 35
Henry Clout 12
Frances Clout 7<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Benjamin Clout 6
Eliza Clout 2<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mary Bishop 65

Parents' Marriage?:

groom's name: Charles Clout
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Mary Ann Bishop
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 27 Jul 1822
marriage place: Ticehurst, Sussex, England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: I05735-0
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1894294
reference number: page 45, #133

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 04:09

Re the 1863 Sevenoaks marriage Barbara posted earlier, looks like Frances Ann Kingswood married the other guy...

Marriages Sep 1863
Chantler John Sevenoaks 2a 659
KINGSWOOD Frances Ann Sevenoaks 2a 659
RUSSELL Sarah Ann Sevenoaks 2a 659
TOTMAN George Goulding Sevenoaks 2a 659


Census 1871:

Name: Frances Totman
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George Totman
Gender: Female
Where born: Penshurst, Kent, England
Civil parish: Penshurst
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub-registration district: Penshurst
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 17
Piece: 925
Folio: 46
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
George Totman 33
Frances Totman 31 wife <<<<<<<
Ann Kingswood 63 mother in law <<<<<<<


Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 03:56


Marriages:

??? matches the 28 yrs wed in 1911 census

Marriages Jun 1882

>>Cottingham George Ticehurst 2b 181
FOSTER George Ticehurst 2b 181
Wallis Priscilla Ticehurst 2b 181
>>Wright Annie Ticehurst 2b 181


Was Eliza Clifton [Mary] Annie's mother?

Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
>>Clifton Alfred Ticehurst 2b 176
DIBLEY Caroline Killick Ticehurst 2b 176
Wickens Stephen Ticehurst 2b 176
>>WRIGHT Eliza Ticehurst 2b 176

Co-incidently Alfred and Eliza had a daughter called Frances, but I still can't connect [Mary] Annie with Frances Chandler/Chantler.


Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 03:16

Mistranscribed in 1891:

Address: Penny Bridge, Mark Cross Road, Wadhurst County: Sussex

COLLINGHAM, George Head Married M 31 1860 Agricultural Laborer
Frant, Sussex
COLLINGHAM, Mary A Wife Married F 24 1867 Wadhurst, Sussex
COLLINGHAM, Rose A Daughter Single F 6 1885 Scholar
Wadhurst, Sussex
COLLINGHAM, Peter Son Single M 3 1888 Frant, Sussex
COLLINGHAM, Emily M Daughter Single F 2 1889 Wadhurst, Sussex
COLLINGHAM, William D Son Single M 0 (7M) 1891 Mayfield, Sussex


Walter Cottingham from census 1901 is with grandparents:

Address: 19, Woods Green, Wadhurst County: Sussex

CLIFTON, Alfred Head Married M 59 1832 Agricultural Labourer Wadhurst, Sussex
CLIFTON, Eliza Wife Married F 51 1840 Wadhurst, Sussex
CLIFTON, John Son M 17 1874 Imbecile From A Child Caused By A Fall Wadhurst, Sussex
CLIFTON, Frances Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar Wadhurst, Sussex
COTTINGHAM, Walter Grandson M 7 1884 Scholar Wadhurst, Sussex<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 1 Dec 2012 02:55

Census 1911:

Address: 46 Greenfield Road Folkestone County: Kent

Married 28 yrs, 9 children, all living.

COTTINGHAM, George Head Married M 51 1860 Carter Sussex Frant
COTTINGHAM, Mary Annie Wife Married 28 years F 44 1867 Sussex Wadhurst
COTTINGHAM, Sidney George Son Single M 17 1894 Baker - Vanman Sussex Lamberhurst
COTTINGHAM, George Arthur Son M 14 1897 Kent Dover
COTTINGHAM, Annie Daughter F 12 1899 School Kent Folkestone
COTTINGHAM, Allis Victoria Daughter F 8 1903 School Kent Folkestone
RYE, George Boarder Single M 18 1893 Errand And Coy - Bookshop London Wandsworth


Census 1901:

Address: 52, Sidney Street, Folkestone County: Kent

COTTINGHAM, George Head Married M 41 1860 Carter Town Frant, Sussex
COTTINGHAM, Mary Wife Married F 36 1865 Wadhurst, Sussex
COTTINGHAM, Walter Son Single M 17 1884 Blacksmith Wadhurst, Sussex
COTTINGHAM, Rose A Daughter Single F 16 1885 Wadhurst, Sussex
COTTINGHAM, Peter Son M 14 1887 Grocer's Shop Frant, Sussex
COTTINGHAM, William D Son M 10 1891 Mayfield, Sussex
COTTINGHAM, Sidney G Son M 8 1893 Lamberhurst, Sussex
COTTINGHAM, George A Son M 5 1896 Dover, Kent
COTTINGHAM, Annie Daughter F 2 1899 Folkestone, Kent

Barbara

Barbara Report 30 Nov 2012 10:35

1871
1871 England Census 1871 England Census
Name: Frances Chantler
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Chantler
Gender: Female
Where born: Ticehurst, Sussex, England
Civil parish: Tonbridge
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
Town: Tunbridge Wells
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Tunbridge
Sub-registration district: Tunbridge Wells
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Household schedule number: 175
Piece: 930
Folio: 19
Page Number: 32
Household Members: Name Age
John Chantler 33
Frances Chantler 34



ManfromMars

ManfromMars Report 30 Nov 2012 10:26

many thanks choccy, yes i also found that one, i want to find the connection between Marry Annie Cottingham and Frances.

Frances was meant to be an aunt,


Thankyou again.

mfm

Choccy

Choccy Report 30 Nov 2012 10:22



not finding anything 'definite' - have to go out now, but will look in again when I get back





Barbara

Barbara Report 30 Nov 2012 10:20

Working backwards this could be a possible
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1863 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chantler John Sevenoaks 2a 659
KINGSWOOD Frances Ann Sevenoaks 2a 659

ManfromMars

ManfromMars Report 30 Nov 2012 10:06

The newspaper says frances was married to a Harry but that could be his nickname etc, so now i am looking for a john chandler marriage.

Thankyou so much for the help,

mfm

ManfromMars

ManfromMars Report 30 Nov 2012 10:03

Dear Choccy, thanks again for that now i want to find her marriage to a possible Harry Chandler.

Any ideas?

mfm

Choccy

Choccy Report 30 Nov 2012 10:01


working backwards -

1901

RG number: RG13
Piece: 845
Folio: 27
Page: 11
Reg. District: Dover
Sub District: Hougham
Parish: Hougham Without
Enum. District: 2
Ecclesiastical District: St Lawrance
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Church Hougham, Hougham Without, Kent
County: Kent



ASHMAN, John Head Widower M 58 1843 Agricultural Labour
Smeeth, Kent
CHANDLER, Fanny House Keeper Widow F 66 1835 House Keeper
Tickhurst, Kent




1891

RG number: RG12
Piece: 745
Folio: 51
Page: 22
Reg. District: Dover
Sub District: Hougham
Parish: Buckland
Enum. District: 3
Ecclesiastical District: St Andrews
City/Municipal Borough: Dover
Address: 2, Oswald Road, Buckland, Dover
County: Kent


CHANTLER, John Head Married M 55 1836 General Labourer
Tunbridge Wells, Kent
CHANTLER, Frances Wife Married F 55 1836
Ticehurst, Sussex

Choccy

Choccy Report 30 Nov 2012 09:59



1911

RG14PN4621 RG78PN194 RD65 SD3 ED3 SN53
Reg. District: Dover
Sub District: Hougham
Parish: Hougham Without
Enum. District: 3
Address: Church Hougham Near Dover
County: Kent


CHANTLER, Frances Head Widow F 78 1833 Old Age Pensioner - Late Monthly Nurse Sussex Ticehurst


ManfromMars

ManfromMars Report 30 Nov 2012 09:47

Hello again,

Is there a Frances Chandler showing on the 1911 census in Dover,from her obituary it says she lived in Hougham and that her husband Harry Chandler died 17 years ago.

I am trying to find the maiden name of Frances Chandler,

Any help appreciated.

mfm