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Charles would have been born in the 1760s and appears on the 1841 and 1851 Censuses at Sussex Place, Oild Kent Road Camberwell
1841 as Of Independant Means and 1851 as a Retired ??? born Middlesex.
His Will (PCC) dated 12 May 1851 lists his children as
Charles
George
William
Catherine (Wife of James Davidge)
1829 London Directory lists him as a Goldsmith at 120 Fleet Street.
Charles was born 23 Dec 1793 and Baptised 7 May 1794 at St Bride, Fleet Street. Married Amelia Pritchard.
George was born 3 Aug 1795 and Baptised 30 Oct 1795 also at St Bide's. Maried Mary Elsey,
William was born 12 Mar 1797 and Baptised 24 Aug 1797 at St Bride's. Married Jane Tyas and took over from his father.
Catherine was born 2 May 1798 and Baptised 23 May 1798 at St Bride's. Married James Davidge.

The above baptisms show that Charle's wife was Ann.
I think she was born about 1774 and buried at Camberwell 30 May 1821

I am looking for inspiration and for further details on Charles (senior) and Ann.

I know that there was a baptism at St Bride, Fleet St of a Charles Harden, son of Roger and Catherine 7 Sep 1766 which might be my man but I have no other details that may link Roger to Charles.
Also I have not been able to find a Marriage of Charles to Ann. I did investigate one possibility in 1795 to Ann Collins but think it most unlikely as that would have been well after the date of their firstborn and the signature for that Charles in the Register looks nothing like the specimens I have from when he witnessed the Marriages of his children.

Most of the information above was obtained whilst I had a subscription to Ancestry a year or so back. It is however possible that further information is now available that I no longer have access to.

Any help would be appreciated.

Jeremy

There are 2 trees on Ancestry that have him.One is a Harden tree,seems to follow William,the other is Leakey. The Harden tree has his parents as Richard and Catherine.
Eileen

Thank you Eileen.
I do not have asscess to those trees, but then I prefer not to copy the work of others, though they can perhaps be useful pointers for further research.

Yes, I also follow the line from Charles' son William.

I was interested in your mention of Richard. It is true that there is PCC Will for a Richard Harden of Brunswick Place, St John Street for 13 Jan 1835 that might be worth me following up. I do not know how old he was when he died but my thoughts go back to Roger and Catherine.

The Baptisms for the children of Roger and Catherine I have found were as follows
Roger, Bapt 30 Jul 1758 St Ann Blackfriars
John Bapt 10 Feb 1760
Catherine Bapt 8 Jul 1761
Joseph 20 Aug 1762
Then we move to St Bride Fleet St with
Charles Bapt 7 Sep 1766
Richard Bapt 19 Aug 1768
Elizabeth Bapt 10 Oct 1770

My guess being that Richard may have been a sibling of Charles.

There was also a Will for a William Harden of St Pancras 14 Oct 1825

Jeremy

Jeremy, if you're no longer a member of Ancestry then you can still search and view trees, and contact tree owners (if you so wished), on Mundia http://www.mundia.com

Although you have to register it's free to use (an Ancestry spin-off).

I have an Electoral register entry for 1834, 1835, 1837, 1841.

Charles Harden - Comb Maker, 13 Lower Sussex Place, Old Kent Road.

Are you sure your's was a Goldmith?

Tracey x

:-D

Thanks MarieCeleste. I had forgotten about Mundia.

Tracy

I have no reason to doubt the London Directory entry for 1829
If it will help, here are a few notes on his son William.
1841 Census shows William as a Silversmith at St Bride.
1841 London Directory shows the Business at 120 Fleet Street
1851 Census as a Jeweller at St Mary Newington.
His wife Jane Tyas was also a daughter of a Goldsmith, (William Tyas)

The PCC Will for Charles makes it clear we are talking about the same family and ties in exactly with the Baptisms.And there is no doubting his rather flamboyant signature in the registers when his children married.
But even combs can be made of precious metals....
By 1834, he was in his late 60s so probably semi retired.

Jeremy

Burial (Find My Past)

First name(s): Catherine
Last name HARDEN
Date of burial: 2 August 1761
Place of burial St Ann, Blackfriars
Age at death: 1 Month
Approximate year of birth: 1761
Address at death: Not recorded
Record source City of London Burials

Chris :)

Name: Charlotte Harden
Baptism Date: 22 Oct 1752
Parish: St Ann Blackfriars
County: London
Borough: City of London
Parent(s): Roger Harden,
Catherine Harden
Record Type: Baptism
Register Type: Parish Register


UK, Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures, 1710-1811
Master's Name: Jonathan Arnison (Taylor)
Apprentice Name: Joseph Harden
Residence Location: Christchurch Spitalfields, Middlesex
Payment Date: 10 Jan 1777



Name: Chas Harden (Charlotte)
Spouse Name: Jona Norson (Jonathan Arnison)
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 9 Feb 1777
Parish: St Bride Fleet Street
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Register

Baptism
Day:10
Month:October
Year:1779
Forename:Mary
Othernames:Ann
Surname:Armison
Fathers forenames:Jonathan
Fathers occupation:Taylor
Mothers forenames:Charlotte
Birth date:
Address:John Street, New Road
Location of church:Stepney
Parish:St George In The East
Church address:Cannon Street Road
Entry No:1204
Source Ref:NX 97/277
Transcriber Note:
Original Note:27 days old
Record source:Docklands Ancestors


(above might relate)

Chris :)

London and Country Directory, vol 1 > London Directory of Professions and Trades (Ancestry)

Harden Rich (Brewer, Turks Head Yard, Turnmill Street)
Harden Wm (ladies shoemaker, Clapham Common)
Harden (blank) (boot & shoemaker, 19, Phoenix St. Spitalfields)
Harden Joseph (stonemason, 1,Bennet St. Blackfriars Road)
Harden James (pocket book maker, stationer, Peckham)
Hardon Charles (dressing box maker 14, Little Thomas Apostle)

(also below can be handy)

http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/

Chris :)


London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
Name: Catherine Harden
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1780
Burial Date: 1780
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1731
Parish or Poor Law Union: Whitefield
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Register
(on image, St. Bride, Family Grave, Middle Ground)


Name: Anne Harden
Baptism Date: 23 Feb 1755
Parish: St Ann Blackfriars
County: London
Borough: City of London
Parent(s): Roger Harden,
Cathrine Harden
Record Type: Baptism
Register Type: Parish Register
(above, another Baptism)


(thinks you better re-join Ancestry!)

Thank you Chris.
I am sure that information will be valuable if I can make a positive connection.
I have hesitated to do so far as (as you have observed) there were several Harden families in the London area. I have many such unrelated pieces of information, including 2 other Charles'
Your connection between Joseph and Charlotte looks spot on.

I am also concious that when I checked about 2 years ago, there were several Registers missing from the collection. Most notable were the absence of St Giles in the Fields prior to 1813 and the parishes around Westminster.
There is, for example a Marriage in 1797 at St James Westminster relating to another family connection that I would dearly love to see the image. My only reference so far is from the Pallott's Index which covered London pretty well from 1780 to 1820.

And there is for me, still the burning question of who did Charles marry?
If it turned out to be an Ann Clarkson, I would be more than happy as that was used as a second name for one of William's children.

So perhaps I will wait a little longer before taking out another short subscription.

Thanks again
Jeremy

also a Burial, Charles 1792, Shoe Lane (6 weeks)


The 1766 Charles Baptism, noted address, Shoe Lane.

(as is address for your other names, parents Charles & Ann/Hannah)

Chris :)

Thank you very much Chris

That I think may be the other bit of information I needed to firm up the link.

Shoe Lane intersects Fleet Street by St Bride's Church and is only just to the North of Blackfriars. 120 Fleet Street is also on that intersection.

Jeremy

FMP state they have marriages for...
St James, Piccadilly (St James, Westminster) 1685 - 1837

You can see FMP's current coverage of the Westminster records here...
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/cms/fmp/pdf/westminster-parish-records.pdf

Post the details of the one you are interested in and I am sure someone with a sub will have a look for you.

Chris

Thanks Chris in Sussex

Yes, it is good point about FMP.
I held back asking when I noticed that the Westminster records were being offered as I hoped that they might eventually be included on GR

Hopefully the records include the Register Image as I am in need of clues to who the parents may have been, so witnesses will be crucial.

Jeremy

Bankrupt directory 1820-1843
Last name:Harden
First names:William
Street:Town:ClaphamCounty:
SurreyOccupation:boot maker
Day:26
Month:April
Year:1831
Notes:Page:182Record source:Bankrupt directory 1820-1843 Data provider:brightsolid online publishing ltd

UK, Midlands and Various UK Trade Directories, 1770-1941 about William Harden
Name: William Harden
Region: Miscellaneous
Residence Year: 1845
Publication Title: 1845 Post Office Directory of London and Birmingham with Warwickshire - Part 2
Occupation: Goldsmith
Street Address: 120 Fleet street

Jeremy I have found a freedom of the City record for Roger and he was a combmaker,dated 10 july 1764. I can email you the image. Please remind me of your email address.

have you tried the Goldsmiths Company

http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/collections-library/library/research-guides-reading-lists/researching-family-history-in-the-library/

apprentice books date from 1578 and contain information on the name of the apprentice, parent, whether living or deceased, parent’s trade or profession and place of abode (parish).

I have found you and hopefully have sent it.

London, England, Freedom of the City Admission Papers, 1681-1925 about Roger Harden
Name: Roger Harden
Admission Date: 31 Jan 1764
Father's Name: Roger Harden

And this would give you your link. The address is shoe lane in the top corner of the image.

London, England, Freedom of the City Admission Papers, 1681-1925 about Charles Harden
Name: Charles Harden
Birth Date: 1776
Admission Date: 1799
Father's Name: Roger Harden