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John Copland Brick Wall.

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Norfolkboy

Norfolkboy Report 27 Dec 2012 21:29

Need help please to get further,
I have John Copland c1786-1884 marr to Frances Samson, 14/4/1816 at St. Gregory's Norwich, Norfolk. obtained from Norwich Record's Office.
No info on Marriage document's.
How do i get further info on his parents etc ??

Jonesey

Jonesey Report 27 Dec 2012 21:33

Look for his possible baptism at www.familysearch.org

Presumably you know his birthplace from census records. Bear in mind that not all children were baptised soon after birth if at all.

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 27 Dec 2012 21:39

John Copland
England and Wales Census, 1841
birth: 1786 Norfolk
census: 1841 St Lawrence,? Norwich,? Norfolk,? England


name: John Copland
event: Census
event date: 1841
gender: Male
age: 55
birthplace: Norfolk
record type: Household
registration district: Norwich
sub-district: West Wymer
civil parish: St Lawrence
county: Norfolk

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 27 Dec 2012 21:40

John Copland
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
spouse: Frances Samson
child: John Cannon Copland


name: John Cannon Copland
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 07 Apr 1817
baptism/christening place: Norwich, St. Gregory, Norfolk, England
father's name: John Copland
mother's name: Frances Samson
indexing project (batch) number: I02274-6
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1278797

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 27 Dec 2012 21:41

John Copland
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 16 Apr 1816 St. Gregory,? Norwich,? Norfolk,? England
spouse: Frances Samson


groom's name: John Copland
bride's name: Frances Samson
marriage date: 16 Apr 1816
marriage place: St. Gregory, Norwich, Norfolk, England
indexing project (batch) number: I07366-4
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1517747

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 27 Dec 2012 21:44

Frances Samson
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 27 May 1784
christening: 30 May 1784 SAINT GREGORY,?NORWICH,?NORFOLK,?ENGLAND
parents: William Samson,? Frances Knowles


name: Frances Samson
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 30 May 1784
baptism/christening place: SAINT GREGORY,NORWICH,NORFOLK,ENGLAND
birth date: 27 May 1784
father's name: William Samson
mother's name: Frances Knowles
indexing project (batch) number: C04803-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 993653

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 27 Dec 2012 21:45

two different middle names :-S

Frances Samson
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
spouse: John Copland
child: John Samson Copland


name: John Samson Copland
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 07 Apr 1817
baptism/christening place: St. Gregory, Norwich, Norfolk, England
father's name: John Copland
mother's name: Frances Samson
indexing project (batch) number: I07366-4
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1517747

BeverleyW

BeverleyW Report 27 Dec 2012 21:45

Another son christened on the same day or a transcription error?

name: John Samson Copland
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 07 Apr 1817
baptism/christening place: St. Gregory, Norwich, Norfolk, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: John Copland
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Frances Samson

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 27 Dec 2012 21:48

Willm. Samson
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 07 Oct 1781 SAINT GREGORY,?NORWICH,?NORFOLK,?ENGLAND
death: 07 Mar 1782
parents: William Samson,? Frances


name: Willm. Samson
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 07 Oct 1781
baptism/christening place: SAINT GREGORY,NORWICH,NORFOLK,ENGLAND
death date: 07 Mar 1782
father's name: William Samson
mother's name: Frances
indexing project (batch) number: C04803-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 993653

Mary Thurston Samson
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 19 Sep 1779 SAINT GREGORY,?NORWICH,?NORFOLK,?ENGLAND
death: 13 Apr 1794
parents: Willm. Samson,? Frances


name: Mary Thurston Samson
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 19 Sep 1779
baptism/christening place: SAINT GREGORY,NORWICH,NORFOLK,ENGLAND
death date: 13 Apr 1794
father's name: Willm. Samson
mother's name: Frances
indexing project (batch) number: C04803-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 993653

Norfolkboy

Norfolkboy Report 27 Dec 2012 21:58

it's getting interesting, AnnCardiff.

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 27 Dec 2012 22:02

not having much luck finding his parents

Norfolkboy

Norfolkboy Report 27 Dec 2012 22:11

That's my Brick Wall !!
Many Thanks for trying.

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 28 Dec 2012 00:28

The nearest I can find is this one, but probably not likely:

SECOND EDIT. Thanks to Chris, now looks extremely likely.

County Norfolk
Place Buxton
Church St Andrew At
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate * * 1784
Forename John
Sex M
FatherForename Edward
MotherForename Ann
FatherSurname COPLAND
MotherSurname FABB
Abode
FatherOccupation
Notes
FileNumber 10033


EDIT. Looks like census 1851 rules him out, as he's married to Mary.

Address: St Johns Head Yard, St Michaels At Coslany, Norwich County: Norfolk

COPLAND, John Head Married M 66 1785 Shoe Maker Buxton, Norfolk
COPLAND, Mary Wife Married F 59 1792 Taverham, Norfolk
LOND, Thomas Son In Law M 16 1835 Shoe Maker Norwich

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 28 Dec 2012 08:08

Burial
County Norfolk
Place Norwich
Church St Gregory
RegisterNumber 737
BurialDate 17 Jul 1842
Forename Frances
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname COPLAND
Age 58
Abode St Lawrence

County Norfolk
Place Norwich
Church St Gregory
RegisterNumber 113
MarriageDate 01 Jun 1848
GroomForename John
GroomSurname COPLAND
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Widower
GroomOccupation Shoemaker
GroomAbode St Gregory
BrideForename Mary
BrideSurname LONG
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Widow
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode St Gregory
GroomFatherForename Edward
GroomFatherSurname COPLAND
GroomFatherOccupation Weaver
BrideFatherForename John
BrideFatherSurname BELL
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename George
WitnessOneSurname MORTIMER
WitnessTwoForename Paul
WitnessTwoSurname PERRY
Notes He signs X She signs X

Chris :)


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

(from above link)

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 28 Dec 2012 10:24

So if Chris is right in putting two and two together, John from Buxton could well have been Frances' widower when he married Mary Long nee Bell, and Thomas Lond in census 1851 is probably Thomas Long, his stepson?

So it's just possible that Buxton baptism is a contender after all?

Chris, you're brilliant! :-D

And I give up too easily...

Can we find John as a shoemaker with Frances in 1841 census?

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 28 Dec 2012 10:29

Yes!!!!!!!!!!

He's a cordwainer in census 1841, so shoemaker fits.

Well done Chris!

Name: John Copland
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786
Gender: Male
Where born: Norfolk, England
Civil parish: St Lawrence
Hundred: Norwich
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Street Address:

Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: West Wymer
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 789
Book: 7
Folio: 16
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
John Copland 21 cordwainer
John Copland 55 cordwainer
Francis Copland 55
William S Copland 18

All born in county.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 28 Dec 2012 10:33

Lol Kucinta, I found above items last night, but was getting late for me, thought I'd do 'Birth' this morning...then found you have it, well done on that, just hope it's all ok. FreeReg can be good for Norfolk.

Chris :)

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 28 Dec 2012 10:35

Marriage for Edward Copland and Ann Fabb.

groom's name: Edward Copland
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Ann Fabb
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 11 Nov 1777
marriage place: Buxton, Norfolk, England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: I03902-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1596233

Another transcription has the marriage date as 9th Nov 1777.

On the Freereg transcription, one witness was Richard Copland. The second witness wasn't listed.

Norfolkboy

Norfolkboy Report 28 Dec 2012 20:02

Wow!! Chris Ho & Kucinta,
Didn't expect this when i now logged on,
This is Fantastic, I have been stuck on this for a long long time,
I knew there were a lot of Copland's around the Buxton Area and until now could not find a connection to them, You have done this and much more.
I have photograph's from my Grandfather's house, Charles Copland 1877 of Scottish Soldiers with no info and know there are a lot of Copland's from Scotland, maybe this will get me on the track again.
Ironically, I am also a Cordwainer and was priviledged to have made the Page Boy Shoes for Prince William's wedding to Kate Middleton.
Many, Many Thanks, Much appreciated.

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 28 Dec 2012 20:05

so we have someone famous on the boards!!!!! :-D :-D :-D