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I am looking for the parents of Martha Ireland b. abt 1830. I know for sure that she married Joseph Henry Leach in 1854 at St. Nicholas Church, Liverpool (I have cert.). Her father is shown as Isaac Ireland, Ropemaker. Witnesses to the marriage were John Ireland and Ellen Ireland.

I can find a Martha Ireland in the 1841 and 1851 censuses with father Isaac and mother Mary, but Isaac's occupation is given as labourer. There's a baptism given for Martha, parents Isaac and Mary, but again Isaac's occupation is given as labourer.

There is another Isaac Ireland shown in the 1841 and 1851 censuses with wife as Hannah. This Isaac is shown as roper, or ropemaker. The problem is that there is no Martha shown with these parents in the 1841 and 1851 censuses.

I did find a baptism for a Martha Ireland, 27 Sep 1829, to parents Isaac and Hannah, with Isaac's occupation fairly illegible but looks like cord or card something. Because of this I'm thinking that Martha's parents are Isaac and Hannah but why would she not show up in the census.

Any suggestions.
Yvonne

Hello Yvonne - what is Martha's birthplace on later census?

This must be the baptism you refer to:

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Martha Ireland
Baptism Date: 27 Sep 1829
Parish: Toxteth Park St James
Father's Name: Isaac Ireland
Mother's Name: Hannah Ireland

Looks like Isaac's occupation is a cordwainer (shoemaker)

Address looks like Wright Street, Harrington.

Hi MarieCeleste
On 1851 census one Martha is shown born in Liverpool and one in Garston. The Garston one (parents Isaac and Mary),
Yvonne

On the 1854 marriage Martha's address is given as Strand Street. The witnesses were John Ireland and Ellen Ireland - have you followed them up?

Yvonne - I meant on the later census after she was married, that may give a better idea of birthplace.

This from 1861. Issac Snr is a Ropemaker

1861 England Census
about Isaac Ireland
Name: Isaac Ireland
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Hannah Ireland
Gender: Male
Where born: Hale, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 52
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 52
Piece: 2708
Folio: 9
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
Isaac Ireland 59
Hannah Ireland 57
Isaac Ireland 19




Andy

Is this a sibling of Martha's?

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
Name: John Ireland
Birth Year: abt 1828
Age: 26
Marriage Date: 23 Mar 1854
Parish: Edge Hill St Mary
Spouse's Name: Hannah Crosby
Father's Name: Isaac Ireland
Spouse Father's Name: James Crosby

This father Isaac is a ropemaker

Ellen Ireland
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 1826 ST.JAMES,? LIVERPOOL,? LANCS,? ENG.
residence: Liverpool,? Lancashire,? England
parents: Isaac Ireland,? Hannah



1841
Age Birth Year Occupation Where born Image
ROCKLIFF, Francis M 75 1766 Lancashire VIEW
ROCKLIFF, Jane F 70 1771 Lancashire VIEW
BRETHERTON, Elizabeth F 40 1801 Lancashire VIEW
BRETHERTON, Daniel M 1 1840 Lancashire VIEW
>>>>>IRELAND, Ellen F 15 1826 Lancashire VIEW
>>>>>>IRELAND, Martha F 12 1829 Lancashire VIEW


Regards Vera

Martha and Ellen were both female servants on the 1841 that Vera has posted.

Girls could be put into service from around 10 so that would be why Martha isn't showing with her family on any census.

1851??

1851 England Census
about Martha Ireland
Name: Martha Ireland
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Visitor
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 1ap
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 6
Piece: 2188
Folio: 25
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
John Lee 30
Sarah Lee 24
Thomas S Lee 2
Susannah Lee 3 Mo
>>>>>Martha Ireland 21


Andy

1841 England Census
about Martha Ireland
Name: Martha Ireland
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Walton On The Hill
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 520
Book: 2
Folio: 30
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Francis Rockliff 5
Jane Rockliff 70
Elizabeth Bretherton 40
Daniel Bretherton 1
Ellen Ireland 15 ****************
Martha Ireland 12 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Both down as Female servants.

name: John Ireland
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 1828
baptism/christening place: ST. JAMES, LIVERPOOL, LANCS, ENG.
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Isaac Ireland
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Hannah
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C16131-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1468980
reference number: - 2:2Q9LXV6

name: William Ireland
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 1831
baptism/christening place: ST. JAMES, LIVERPOOL, LANCS, ENG
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Isaac Ireland
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Hannah
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C16131-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1468980
reference number: - 2:2Q9MH0P

name: Jane Ireland
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 1835
baptism/christening place: ST. JAMES, LIVERPOOL, LANCS, ENG
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Isaac Ireland
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Hannah
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C16131-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1468980
reference number: - 2:2Q9MZVH

name: Rebecca Ireland
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 1833
baptism/christening place: ST. JAMES, LIVERPOOL, LANCS, ENG
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Isaac Ireland
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Hannah
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C16131-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1468980
reference number: - 2:2Q9MQGS

I looked at the 1861 and 1871 census and place of birth is given as Liverpool, so that doesn't really help.

As to the John and Ellen on the marriage certificate, I did try looking to see if there was a marriage or if they were just brother and sister. There are several marriages that could work, so that didn't really help.

Everything seems to point to Isaac and Hannah but I just can't be sure.

Thanks
Yvonne

name: Hannah Ireland
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 25 Mar 1838
baptism/christening place: St James, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Isaac Ireland
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Hannah
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C16131-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1468981 IT 1
reference number:


A second daur called Jane ? - previous one baptised 1835:


name: Jane Ireland
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 31 Jul 1836
baptism/christening place: St James, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Isaac Ireland
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Hannah
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C16131-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1468981 IT 1
reference number:

Thank you all for this - I will digest and get back to you.

Yvonne

Marriage: 11 Aug 1825 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Isaac Ireland - Rope-maker of this Parish <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hannah Lloyd - (X), Spinster of this Parish
Witness: Edward Hales; Peter Poole
Married by Licence by: John Pulford, B. D. Curate
Register: Marriages 1825 - 1827, Page 6, Entry 18
Source: LDS Film 93918

Witnesses John and Ellen Ireland match the names of two of Isaac and Hannah's children, and Vera and MelFG have previously located and posted Martha with Ellen in census 1841.

Census 1851:

Address: St Oswald Street, West Derby County: Lancashire

IRELAND, Isaac Head Married M 49 1802 Rope Maker Dunceon, Lancashire
IRELAND, Hannah Wife Married F 48 1803 Chester, Cheshire
IRELAND, John Son Unmarried M 22 1829 Boot And Shoe Maker
Liverpool, Lancashire
IRELAND, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 13 1838 Scholar
West Derby, Lancashire
IRELAND, James Son M 9 1842 Scholar West Derby, Lancashire
IRELAND, Mary Daughter F 7 1844 Scholar West Derby, Lancashire
IRELAND, Elizabeth Daughter F 5 1846 Scholar West Derby, Lancashire

and in 1841:

Name: Isaac Ireland
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Walton On The Hill
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 520
Book: 9
Folio: 44
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Ireland 35
Hannah Ireland 35
John Ireland 13
Rebecca Ireland 8
Jane Ireland 5
Hannah Ireland 3

Isaac a roper by occupation. All born in county except for Hannah aged 35.

Joseph and Martha's first daughter was mary Hannah Leach so I should thin the parents are Issac and Hannah.