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Marriages Dec 1837 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
GARRATT Harriot Sheffield 22 417
WHITE Thomas Sheffield 22 417

(would be above)

Chris :)

(so Birth Cert. for George Henry needed, would think Dec. Qtr. one, might fit with Baptism posted earlier?)

Chris

Were there marriage certs back then? or just names noted in book?

cheers

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

(above link for searching, your'e just in luck with 1837)

Chris :)

1871
WHITE, Harriet Head F 59 1812 Yorkshire
WHITE, Ellen Daughter F 19 1852 Yorkshire
WHITE, Thomas Son M 29 1842 Yorkshire
WHITE, Anne Daughter-In-Law F 32 1839 Isle of Man
Piece: 4668
Folio: 158
Page: 26
Registration District: Ecclesall Bierlow
Civil Parish: Ecclesall
Municipal Borough: Sheffield
Address: Egerton Street, Ecclesall, Sheffield
County: Yorkshire

1861
WHITE, Thomas Head Married M 51 1810 Boot And Shoe Maker
Sheffield
WHITE, Harriett Wife Married F 49 1812 House Wife
Sheffield
WHITE, Thomas Son Unmarried M 19 1842 Cordwainer
Sheffield
WHITE, John Son Unmarried M 16 1845 Chandler J C
Sheffield
WHITE, Henry Son Unmarried M 12 1849 Cordwainer
Sheffield
WHITE, Ellen Daughter Unmarried F 9 1852 Scholar
Sheffield
GREEN, Jacob Visitor Unmarried M 22 1839 Cordwainer
Norwich, Norfolk
Piece: 3490
Folio: 46
Page: 31
Registration District: Sheffield
Civil Parish: Sheffield
Municipal Borough: Sheffield
Address: Broad Street, Sheffield
County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Chris

The baptism you posted mentioned the father as being Thomas and the mother being Matilda....
I have no reference to George's mother so it looked a possibility and was the right year.
However, on George's marriage certificate to Violetta, he names his father as Henry John White.... not Thomas.
:-(

But Gins posted another 1872 Birth also...(added below)

Chris :)


Births Mar 1872 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
White George Henry Sheffield 9c 384

Chris

Your latest post sheds more light on the possible name change theory I had.

You show in the 1871 census that a daughter in law was there. from the Isle of Man, Anne White.

In the 1881 census (on previous thread, provided by Ivy) it shows the following;

1881 census (Hull)
Name: George H. White
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sculcoates
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Lorne St
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Sculcoates
Sub-registration district: West Sculcoates
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4763
Folio: 110
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas White 39 Assurance agent b Sheffield
Annie White 43 b Isle of Man Douglas
George H. White 10

In the 1891 census from Conchan, St georges, Douglas, Isle of Man there is the following;
(Note - George has gone from being nephew to being son)

Name: Thomas White
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie White
Gender: Male
Where born: Sheffield, England
Civil parish: Conchan
Ecclesiastical parish: St Georges
Town: Douglas
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man
Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: G
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 4688
Folio: 76
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas White 49 b Sheffield
Annie White 52 b Isle of Man
George H White 20 b Eccleshall Sheffield, son
Nelly White 22 b Eccleshall Sheffield, niece

A bit odd that G H White is now son not nephew, but perhaps Thomas and Annie had adopted him? Maybe after the death of his father Henry John White.

So maybe he had been born as George William White as per my grandad's 2 brothers marriage certs.... and he chanhed his middle name when adopted?

I may need to look for a George William after all?

Chris, I have searched the link you sent me.. all it shows me is a list of names, one of which is Thomas White with the reference of 22, 417
How do I view that actual certificate?
Not sure how it works... I am guessing the numbers relate to a book and page? of which full details are recorded for the bride and groom etc?

Births Mar 1871 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
White George Harman Ecclesall B. 9c 297
White George Hemmings Ecclesall B. 9c 294

1891 (Find My Past)
WHITE, Thomas Head Married M 49 1842 Agent Late Shoemaker
Sheffield, England
WHITE, Annie Wife Married F 52 1839
Douglas, Isle of Man
WHITE, George Hammond Son Single M 20 1871 Corporation Clerk
Eccleshall, Staffordshire, Sheffield England
WHITE, Nelly Niece Single F 22 1869
Eccleshall, Staffordshire, Sheffield England
Piece: 4688
Folio: 76
Page: 29
Registration District: Isle of Man
Civil Parish: Conchan
Municipal Borough:
Address: 29, Demesne Road, Conchan, Douglas
County: Isle of Man

(just adding above, from looking at 1891 image, not sure what others think?)

Chris :)

(will look in tomorrow!)

Would there have been formal adoption documents back then? if George Henry White was actually adopted by Thomas & Annie?

Formal adoption did not start until 1927 - so no records.

Chris you can discount George Harman White - he had sister Edith Beatrice (1878 same district) who married in London 1906 - father George Harman White (dec), one of the witnesses was George Harman White. Family were in Stainforth on 1881 census.

aah, Thankyou Flip...

Below is Annie, and Marriage for Broadbent (if Harriett fits in)


1911
PROCTOR, Eliza Wife Widow F 66 1845 Boarding House London
BROADBENT, Harriet Boarder Married F 36 1875 Sheffield
BROADBENT, Harry Boarder M 11 1900 School Sheffield
BROADBENT, Leonard Boarder M 8 1903 School Armsley Leeds
BROE, Lizzie Visitor Single F 70 1841 Private Means Isle of Man Douglas
WHITE, Annie Visitor Widow F 72 1839 Private Means Isle of Man Douglas
RG number: RG14
Piece: 34671
Reference: RG14PN34671 RD635 SD3 ED18/18 SN30
Registration District: Isle of Man
Sub District:
Enumeration District: 18/18
Parish: Conchan
Address: 61 Derby Road Douglas Isle of Man
County: Isle of Man


Marriages Jun 1897 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Broadbent Alfred Ecclesall B. 9c 588
White Harriet Eccleshall B. 9c 588

(not sure what to make of it all!)...

Chris :)

Gavin, just see your question!, to order certs., go to link Gins posted earlier, then info. from freebmd link is needed)

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

1871
WHITE, Henry Head M 22 1849 Yorkshire (Boot and Shoe Maker)
WHITE, Margaret Wife F 22 1849 Lancashire
WHITE, Ellen Daughter F 2 1869 Yorkshire
WHITE, Harriet Daughter F 0 1871 Yorkshire
Piece: 4668
Folio: 163
Page: 36
Registration District: Ecclesall Bierlow
Civil Parish: Ecclesall
Municipal Borough: Sheffield
Address: Egerton Street, Ecclesall, Sheffield
County: Yorkshire

1881
WHITE, Henry Head Married M 32 1849 Boot Finisher
Sheffield, Yorkshire
WHITE, Margaret Wife Married F 32 1849
Liverpool, Lancashire
WHITE, Ellen Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Sheffield, Yorkshire VIEW
WHITE, Harriet Daughter Single F 10 1871 Scholar
Sheffield, Yorkshire
WHITE, Kate Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar
Sheffield, Yorkshire
WHITE, Henry Son Single M 4 1877
Sheffield, Yorkshire
WHITE, Alfred Son Single M 2 1879
Sheffield, Yorkshire
Piece: 4654
Folio: 7
Page: 6
Registration District: Sheffield
Civil Parish: Sheffield
Municipal Borough:
Address: 21, Ct, H1 Bernard St, Sheffield
County: Yorkshire (West riding)

(did wonder if above was Henry, son of Thomas)


Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
McGrath Margaret Sheffield 9c 504
White Henry Sheffield 9c 504

Chris :)

(seems to be getting more complicated!, think you need to work back with info. from certs.)

Good day peeps, thanks for additional, will have a look through your recent additions and see if I can link them to any infoirmation I have.

I agree Chris, it is getting complicated.... but working back from certs is the key problem... I have certs for my grandparents but cannot find a definate great grandfather to know where to work from..

Still stuck with the George Henry / George William situation.

Chris

The information you found relating to Henry White and Margaret McGrath would fit well with Henry being the son of Thomas.
This is based on me looking at the names of the children they had;

Ellen
Harriet
Kate
Henry
Alfred

Assuming that Thomas White and Harriot Garrett were Henry's parents... Henry's siblings were called;

Ellen
John
Thomas

So the names follow down which was the tradition then.

The only problem for me... assuming that the above link is correct then it is not my line as there is no son identified in the 1871 census called George Henry White or George William White (to fit with my line he would need to have been born around 1872 so should be listed there).

Any thoughts?

I have ordered the following Certs;

Birth: George Henry White - Mar 1872 - 9c/384
Death: George Henry White - Dec 1925 - 10b/240

Marriage: Thomas White / Harriot Garrett - Dec 1837 - 22/417

Hopefully something will come from them..... if not at least I can share the details with you kind folk.

Wise move there Gavin!, let's hope the New Year gets you further...

Chris :)

edits (have added below, for future memory!)


Name: George Henry White (Bootmaker)
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Age: 22
Spouse Name: Violetta Harriet Horne
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Mar 1895
Parish: St Pancras Parish Chapel
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Henry John White (Bootmaker, deceased)
Spouse Father Name: Thomas William Horne
Register Type: Parish Register
(address for both, 8, Wellesley Street, witnesses, James White, Harriet Horne)


1911
WHITE, George Henry Head Married M 37 1874 Boot Maker And Repairer Carlisle Street Sheffield
WHITE, Charles William Son M 5 1906 London Islington
WHITE, Violetta Harriet Wife Married F 36 1875 London St Pancras
RG number: RG14
Piece: 30712
Reference: RG14PN30712 RG78PN1757 RD559 SD1 ED6 SN158
Registration District: Tynemouth
Sub District: Wallsend
Enumeration District: 6
Parish: Wallsend
Address: 134 Station Road Wallsend
County: Northumberland

1901
WHITE, George Henry Head Married M 28 1873 Bootmaker
Sheffield
WHITE, Violetta Wife Married F 26 1875
St Pancras, London
JOHNSON, Thomas Lodger Boarder Single M 41 1860 Bootmaker
St Pancras, London
Piece: 145
Folio: 67
Page: 33
Registration District: St Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Municipal Borough:
Address: 62, Churchway, St Pancras
County: London


Name: Charles William White
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 19 Dec 1905
Father's Name: George Henry White (Bootmaker)
Mother's Name: Violette Harriet White
Parish or Poor Law Union: Dartmouth Park Hill St Peter
Borough: Islington
Register Type: Parish Registers

It could mean that the marriage of Thomas and Harriot is not required if your recent links today are correct.

I am not sure how I will ever get beyond the George Henry / George William problem

Somehow, I have a piece of paper showing George Henry White was born in 1872 in Carlisle Street, Sheffield.

I wonder how the link to Carlisle street came about... surely it would show parents if it had residence of birth...

Any thoughts?

Wait till the birth cert arrives....................

"Chris

Were there marriage certs back then? or just names noted in book?

cheers"

To answer that............

Certs were issued from 1 July 1837, which was when the GRO came into being.

However, until 1875, there were no penalties for not registering births, which meant that a considerable number went unrecorded.

But, almost every child was baptised, so consider looking for baptisms...........