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Sheffield - WHITE

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Gavin

Gavin Report 7 Feb 2013 12:28

thank you. much appreciated.

Gavin

Gavin Report 12 Feb 2013 09:21

Based on the 1911 Census link to my known ancestors, George Henry White, Violetta Harriet White (formerly Horne) and Charles William White (son) where George lists his place of birth as Carlisle Street in Sheffield, then this is the closest match I have;

Births Mar 1871
-------------------------------------------------------
White George William Sheffield 9c 457

Born 19th Jan 1871, 201 Carlisle Street, Brightside, Sheffield.
Registered on 17th Feb 1871.
Father is John White
Mother is Eliza White (formerly Holmes)

However, as per the 1871 Census below, the father is from Nottinghamshire, not Sheffield... and the trade is not Boot & Shoe Makers / Cordwainers which is what I believe my family trade to be.

1871
WHITE, John Head M 28 1843 Nottinghamshire (Blacksmith and Grocer)
WHITE, Eliza Wife F 26 1845 Yorkshire
WHITE, Joseph Son M 6 1865 Yorkshire
WHITE, George Son M 0 1871 Yorkshire
HOLMES, David Father-In-Law M 54 1817 Derbyshire
HOLMES, Lucy Sister F 20 1851 Derbyshire
Piece: 4694
Folio: 133
Page: 26
Registration District: Sheffield
Civil Parish: Brightside Bierlow
Municipal Borough: Sheffield
Address: Carlisle Street, East, Brightside Bierlow, Sheffield
County: Yorkshire

Confused......

Any help finding out if this John White was actually 'Henry John White' or John Henry White' would be useful.

Or any alternative thoughts on George henry White's...... I am over £100 spent on certs and no further forward.... :-(

Gins

Gins Report 12 Feb 2013 16:36

Its a tricky one but dont get too bogged down with the changeable first names. It was quite common to use your middle name as your first

That 1871 census seems to be the correct one for the birth of George as he is 3 months old and that matches with the birth and the census

There is no reason to have any misgivings on the fact that John is from Nottinghamshire, people did move around

What is John' occupation on George' birth certificate?


The father marries as 'John'


Marriages Dec 1864
------------------------------------------------
Holmes Eliza Sheffield 9c 677
White John Sheffield 9c 677


Have you got the family on the 1881 census or any others for that matter?

Gavin

Gavin Report 12 Feb 2013 16:49

Births Mar 1871
-------------------------------------------------------
White George William Sheffield 9c 457

Born 19th Jan 1871, 201 Carlisle Street, Brightside, Sheffield.
Registered on 17th Feb 1871.
Father is John White (I cant make the occupation out, looks like salesman of something)
Mother is Eliza White (formerly Holmes)

Gins

Gins Report 13 Feb 2013 08:50

I presume this is family, all the 'White' children are listed as being born in London!


1881 England Census

Name: David Holmes
Age: 68
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A. Holmes
Gender: Male
Where born: Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Brightside Bierlow
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Grocers Shop 616 Brightside Lane
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Grocer

Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: Brightside
ED, institution, or vessel: 51
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4664
Folio: 73
Page Number: 40
Household Members: Name Age
David Holmes 68
Mary A. Holmes 62
Clara Holmes 21
May A. White 9
Thomas White 4
Joseph White 14
James White 12
George White 11


Have you found John and Eliza on the 1881 census?

Gavin

Gavin Report 13 Feb 2013 19:55

Hi Gins

No I havent found them on the 1881 census...

I have been trying to piece some items together, I will email you as it is on an attachement.

Gavin

Gavin

Gavin Report 15 Feb 2013 09:27

Hi Gin

I have PM'd you the scanned cert for George Henry / George William and some additional information regarding Albert White (youngest son of George William / George Henry)

Registration District: Tynemouth
1918 Birth in the Sub District of Wallsend in the county of Northumberland
Application No. 508658
Appears on the certificate as follows:-
No. 492 Born on 1st April,1918, 49 Thames Street West, U.D. (looks like a 'U' but might be a 'N' for Northumberland?)

Name: Albert (boy).
Name and surname of father: George William White
Name and maiden surname of mother: Violetta Harriet White, formerly Horne
Rank and Profession of father: boot and shoe maker (master)
Signature, Description and residence of Informant : V.H. White, mother, 49 Thames Street West
When Registered: 24th April, 1918


Marriage – 1945
Registration District: Durham, South Eastern
1945 Marriage Solemnized at the Parish Church in the parish of Billingham in the County of Durham
No.384 married on the 8th Sept 1945
Name and surname: Albert White age 27 bachelor, soldier
Residence: 5 Cotswold Crescent
Father's name: George Henry White (deceased)
Profession of father: shoemaker

Name and surname: Ivy May Holyome age 24, spinster, A.T.S
Residence: 5 Cotswold Crescent
Father's name: William Henry Holyome
Profession of father: saw miller

Married in the Parish Church, Church of England
Witnesses: J.F. White and M.F. Stone
Frederick C. Tymms, vicar of Billingham in the county of Durham

Gins

Gins Report 15 Feb 2013 09:32

Hi Gavin

I thought you were sending me a scanned copy of George' birth certificate? From the photo taken on your phone, I cant read the occupation of John

If Chris doesnt mind, can you send a copy of the birth cert to her, it might help for another pair of eyes to check the occupation

Gavin

Gavin Report 15 Feb 2013 09:36

you have 4 unopened in your inbox..... one of which is the scanned copy in full that I sent this morning....
the photos were sent last night in advance of access to a scanner.
Check again and if not there so some reason I will resend.

My sent items is showing 4 items sent to you... all unopened.

cheers

Gins

Gins Report 15 Feb 2013 10:01

Ive opened them all and they are titled Albert?


They are Word docs, not scanned docs

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 15 Feb 2013 10:44

Don't mind looking at Birth Cert...(but GR does seem to have gremlins, with sending and receiving, I've noticed, lol)

Chris :)

Gavin

Gavin Report 15 Feb 2013 11:04

One of them was a PDF scan. I will try again.

update: sent it.

Gins

Gins Report 15 Feb 2013 12:24

Ive recieved it

Occupation could be saleman and ??? farrier?


:-S

Gavin

Gavin Report 15 Feb 2013 13:04

yes, it is very difficult to make it out.... and as I mentioned it doesnt fit with the cordwainer / boot maker history I was hoping to see.

But, it is Carlisle st which George refers to as his place of birth in the 1911 census.

:-S

Gins

Gins Report 16 Feb 2013 14:07

I must be a glutton for punishment as I have been digging aroung again!

Im wondering if this is the father

1891 England Census
Name: John White
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny White
Gender: Male
Where born: Clayworth, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Brightside Bierlow
Ecclesiastical parish: Wicker Trinity
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: Brightside
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3828
Folio: 85
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
John White 46
Fanny White 38
Mary H Riley 18 <<Step child
Lydia Riley 16 <<Step child
Sidney White 15
George White 11
John A White 9
Arthur White 7
Beatrice White 1
Elizabeth Clayton 7 <<Step child
William E Clayton 6 <<Step child

1901 England Census
abName: John White
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny White
Gender: Male
Where born: Clayworth, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Brightside Bierlow
Ecclesiastical parish: Wicker Holy Trinity
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England


Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: West Brightside
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 102
Piece: 4373
Folio: 32
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
John White 56 <<Blacksmith
Fanny White 49
George White 22 <<Fish salesman
Arthur White 17
William L Clayton 16
Elizth Clayton 17
Beatrice Meite 11
Fanny Wilson 5


And here is Fanny in 1881


1881 England Census
Name: Lydia Rieley
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Fanny Rieley
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Unstone
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address: Fallwood Terrace

Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Chesterfield
Sub-registration district: Dronfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3444
Folio: 36
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Fanny Rieley 28 Widow
Sarah A. Rieley 10
Mary E. Rieley 7
Lydia Rieley 6




1911 England Census
Name: John White
Age in 1911: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Clayworth, Nottinghamshire
Civil parish: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 40 Bramber St Spital Hill, Sheffield
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Blacksmith
Registration district: Sheffield
Registration District Number: 510
Sub-registration district: West Brightside
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Piece: 27928
Household Members: Name Age
John White 66
Fanny White 58
Beatrice White 21
George White 33
William Edward Clayton Step son


Abd John in 1881, birth place 'unknown'



1881 England Census
about John White
Name: John White
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth White
Gender: Male

Civil parish: Barnsley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 4 Quarry St
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Smith

Registration district: Barnsley
Sub-registration district: Barnsley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4600
Folio: 128
Page Number: 25
Household Members: Name Age
John White 36
Elizabeth White 36
Lily White 11
Frank White 8
Sidney White 5
George White 2
John Alfred White
Thomas Kitching 72
Alfred Kitching 34
Thomas Clayton 15



Deaths Dec 1883
----------------------------------------------------
WHITE Elizabeth 39 Barnsley 9c 104



I think I have lost the will to live!



1871 England Census
Name: John White
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Kitching
Mother's Name: Elizabeth White
Gender: Male
Where born: Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Barnsley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Barnsley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Barnsley
Sub-registration district: Barnsley
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 3
Piece: 4644
Folio: 51
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Kitching 62
Elizabeth White 28
John White 25 <<Blacksmith
Lucy White 1 Year, 4 Months
Betty Claytor 10 (Clayton)
Sarah A Claytor 2 Years, 6 Months (Clayton)



So, Ive either just proved myself wrong by finding John on the 1871 census or there was something quite odd going on? John cant be on two censuses at the same time, unless he was listed by someone else as being in the house
:-S :-S :-S :-S

Gins

Gins Report 16 Feb 2013 14:18

Well, looky here


1901 England Census

Name: Elizabeth Holmes
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Ecclesall Bierlow
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Sub-registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
ED, institution, or vessel: 76
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 52
Piece: 4358
Folio: 93
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Holmes 56 <<Widow
William Staley 32
Mary Holmes 25
John Holmes 19
Elizabeth Holmes 16
Arthur Burton 27 <<Boarder
Allen White 19 <<Boarder
Kenneth Bennett 11 <<Grandson


Did John and Eliza* seperate and she reverted to her maiden name?


But then again!


1881 England Census

Name: Elizabeth M. Holmes
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Holmes
Gender: Female
Where born: Ecclesall, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Ecclesall Bierlow
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 74 Brincliffe Edge Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Sub-registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
ED, institution, or vessel: 54
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4639
Folio: 18
Page Number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
James Holmes 40
Elizabeth M. Holmes 36
William Staley 11 <<Step son
Mary Ellen Holmes 5
Samuel Wright 43
Joseph Bark 33


Gavin

Gavin Report 16 Feb 2013 16:01

OMG...
Completely lost.....

:-S

Gins

Gins Report 16 Feb 2013 16:30

Elizabeth Holmes born a 'White' then married 'Staley', then married 'Holmes'. So this is not your girl, ignore those later census postings.

Still not sure about the John White census info but I have a feeling its your man? Born Notts, occupation Blacksmith, lives Sheffield

:-S

Gavin

Gavin Report 16 Feb 2013 17:08

I think we may need a face to face to clear away some of the litter and re-align the facts...

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 16 Feb 2013 17:27

Received Birth Cert., would say... salesman in an iron waretrade.

Chris :)