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John Harrop Davies- did he exist ?

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

John

John Report 31 Dec 2012 11:08

Hi, On my Grandfathers birth certificate there is no name for his father but on his marriage certificate it has the name John Harrop Davies and his occupation as a bricklayer. I cannot find any information on this individual, do you think he existed ?. My Grandfathers name wasJohn Archiebald Davies born in 1890 in Crumpsall Manchester to Sophia Davies.In the 1891 census John is John Archie Baldwright living with Sophias parents in Llandyrnog, Denbighshire and Sophia living in Cheshire as a dressmaker. Sophia died in 1896.Dont know what the truth is but a family rumour is that she worked at Ruthin Castle prior to 1890 at the same time the Prince Of Wales visited a lot and he had an eye for the ladies, if you know what I mean ! . Anyway, if anyone has time to look up a John Harrop Davies, i would be truly greatfull. Thank you

patchem

patchem Report 31 Dec 2012 11:12

Are Sophia's parents Baldwright - in which case when did she become Davies?

Added:
No, parents are Davies, so Sophie was not married (or married another Davies)

John

John Report 31 Dec 2012 11:14

Dont know where the Baldwright name came from. She is a Davies as never married . Parents were Davies

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 31 Dec 2012 11:18

cant see her as Sophia Baldwright on any record

patchem

patchem Report 31 Dec 2012 11:18

This is how ancestry has him, and my ancestry is playing up so cannot read original:
1891 Wales Census about John Arehy Bolt Wright
Name: John Arehy Bolt Wright
Age: 3/12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Grandian Shop Gender: Male
Where born: Crumpsall, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Llandyrnog Ecclesiastical parish: Llandyrnog
Town: Speddyd Glanyrafon County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales Registration district: Ruthin Sub-registration district: Llandyrnog
ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Piece: 4625 Folio: 7
Page Number: 7
Richard Davies 62
Margaret Davies 58
John Arehy Bolt Wright 3/12
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4625; Folio: 7; Page: 7; GSU roll: 6099735.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 31 Dec 2012 11:26

wow no wonder I could t find him !!!

John

John Report 31 Dec 2012 11:27

yes thats him. Just need to know if a John Harrop Davies existed as this is the fathers name on John Archiebald Davies marriage certificate to Evelyn Hughes Davies about1921

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 31 Dec 2012 11:32

says the same on FMP
1891 census transcription details for: Tynewyddeuchaf, Glanyrafon, Llandyrnog, Tything Llan

PrintClose
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 4625
Folio: 7
Page: 7
Reg. District: Ruthin
Sub District: Llandyrnog
Parish: Llandyrnog
Enum. District: 1
Ecclesiastical District: Llandyrnog
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Tynewyddeuchaf, Glanyrafon, Llandyrnog, Tything Llan
County: Denbighshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
DAVIES, Richard Head Married M 62 1829 Bricklayer
Llandyrnog, Denbighshire
DAVIES, Margaret Wife Married F 58 1833
Llansannan, Denbighshire
WRIGHT, John Archy Bolt Under Guardianship M 0 (3M) 1891
Crumpsall, Lancashire


he isnt listed as grandson

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 31 Dec 2012 11:34

Well as there is no father listed on his birth cert then would say the fathers name was made up as a face saver. was often the case.

Especially as his mum never married and was a Davies anyway

Reggie

Reggie Report 31 Dec 2012 11:35

The father's name was undoubtedly imaginary

Illegitimacy was considered shameful in those days

patchem

patchem Report 31 Dec 2012 11:36

Just wondered if his father was John Harrop - or that was what his Mother had told him?

Harrop is quite a popular name around Manchester, several candidates for Father.

Added:
e.g.
1911
xxxxHARROP, John Henry Head Married M 40 1871 Bricklayer's Labourer Hurst Lancashire
HARROP, Kate Elizabeth Wife Married18 years F 41 1870 Derbyshire Grindleford Bridge
HARROP, Annie Daughter Single F 20 1891 Printer Hurst Lancashire
HARROP, Violet Daughter Single F 18 1893 Cotton Weaver Hurst Lancashire
HARROP, Lily Daughter Single F 11 1900 School Hurst Lancashire
HARROP, Harry Son Single M 6 1905 School Hurst Lancashire
HARROP, Bertha Daughter F 3 1908 Hurst Lancashire
RG number: RG14 Piece: 24329
Reference: RG14PN24329 RG78PN1395 RD468 SD2 ED5 SN206
Registration District: Ashton under Lyne
Sub District: Mossley enumeration District: 5 Parish: Hurst
Address: 9 Providence St Hurst Ashton U Lyne
County: Lancashire

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 31 Dec 2012 11:42

???

1911 census transcription details for: Fair Ground Welshpool Mont

PrintClose
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN33836 RD617 SD3 ED9 SN132A
Reg. District: Forden
Sub District: Welshpool
Parish: Welshpool
Enum. District: 9
Address: Fair Ground Welshpool Mont
County: Montgomeryshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
CLOVER, Joe Head Single M 40 1871 Showman Salop
MITCHEL, Robert Servant Single M 28 1883 Pinkston Derby
DAVIES, John Servant Single M 22 1889 Manchester
WILLIAMS, William Servant Single M 32 1879 Longton Staff

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 31 Dec 2012 11:46

The father's name was probably "made up" to save face with the in-laws.

It is also possible that the father was a John Harrop. Perhaps the registrar asked "what is your father's name?" and he said "John Harrop" and the registrar just assumed that they were his given names and that Davies was his surname because that was John Archibald's surname.

EDIT - Patchem came up with this theory before me, lol.

Kath. x