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Francis Roman

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Steven Report 27 Jan 2013 01:13

Thanks for looking into this.Could you tell me where you found Andrew Martin Romans' date of birth from. Because I thought I saw it somewhere.but don't know where I was searching when I came across it. If you got the info from my tree.It may not be correct except for the year 1855.
I haven't seen the site Family Search. So cannot say if that name should be Roman or not.


Steven Report 27 Jan 2013 00:11

Yes.My tree does show Catherine Ebers as Francis wife. I was given this info from another member. And since posting my plea for help,Mike came up with marriage certificate info.
thanks for now.


Steven Report 26 Jan 2013 23:53

I'm afraid you chased the wrong Andrew Roman.The one from Hungary is the wrong man.I went down the same path a while back .And nothing fitted in with what I had been told. Also there is nobody called Byron in my Roman family . (as far as I'm aware. The death of Katie in 1909 is correct.


Steven Report 26 Jan 2013 23:47

I do have a downloaded copy of the 1915 marriage certificate.Was there something you wanted to know from it?. I don't know the mother of Katie or Joseph. It could have been a woman named Emery/ Emmery.
But that's a family story handed down.I have not been able to find any documentary evidence of this. Or much else really. It's getting a bit frustrating.


Steven Report 17 Jan 2013 23:34

Marie Celeste.
I did have a little trouble. Couldn't see how the message would go to you. But I get the impression everybody who looks at the board sees it .
I misunderstood the bit about "marking as answered ".I just thought that meant I've answered the message you had posted. I suppose the more I use it the better I'll get. Its beginning to look like I need access to USA records,But with just a few names to go on.I could only enter very vague clues.
I will post notes for the other folk ,who were kind enough to spend some of there time looking at sites.And finding info for me. Its much appreciated.
All the best


MarieCeleste Report 17 Jan 2013 19:36

Steven, really pleased you found your way back onto here!

What a great story (OK, I know the murder's not nice but it's good to have some history) - will have a look and see what can be turned up so keep checking back.

One thing Steven - you've marked the thread as answered so people will assume you don't want further help. If you go to your first post on page one there will be a pinky coloured button that says something like "mark this as unanswered" - click on that.

Would be an idea if you could give some feedback to the info people have posted for you. :-)


Steven Report 16 Jan 2013 22:03

Hello Marie
Thanks for getting in touch.The reason that I don't have much on my tree about Andrew Martin Romans life in America is because I know so little.But here is the family story.Long ago (I really don't know when). An ancestor left Russia for America.
His name was ROMANOF/F (unsure of ending). May have been a family or a single
male. Some where along the way his name changed to ROMAN. Whether to sound more westernised for America, or whether immigration changed it to Roman.Or as has been mooted,as it sounded the same as Romanov (murdered Russian royal family).he may have changed it so as not to be wrongly associated with them fearing reprisals.
Anyway.Mr.Roman is now in America.This may even be Francis Roman.I have no idea .Hence the plea for help.The next thing is Andrew Martin Roman.(AMR) He had 4 children in the States. Joseph his son .And 3 girls,Gertrude, Annie and Katie.I have no idea if he was married at this time ,single,or living together with the childrens' mother. In 1898-1900 I think. AMR came to England as part of the Buffalo Bill wild west show.And Katie came with him. When the show left England AMR stayed here.Katie appears on the 1901 census then disappears. This is due to her being murdered in a Jack the Ripper type of way.Details of the court case can be found on Google if you enter t19090907-77. It says Kitty Roran. But this was later corrected to Kitty/katie Roman.
All the children born in England were before AMR married Annie Monk. I don't know if he deserted his first wife. or wives?. Was waiting for a divorce.or for her to pass away before he remarried.
I just remembered. The story is he married into the Emery family. The people who invented Emery paper,used in metalwork,And Emery boards used for nail filing etc.
So that's the story.What I am aiming to do is put names and dates to it all.
Thanks for offering any help.

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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 11 Jan 2013 21:52

Joseph in 1911 is the same age as Byron.


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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 11 Jan 2013 21:35

Gertrude came over too:

Marriages Mar 1900
Lovelidge Edward George Marylebone 1a 919
Roman Gertrude Frances Marylebone 1a 919

Really looks like Andrew was married to Maria O"Donnell.

1880 United States
Name: Andrew Roman
Age: 27
Birth Year: abt 1853
Birthplace: New York
Home in 1880: New York City, New York, New York
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Maria Roman
Father's Birthplace: Germany
Mother's Birthplace: England
Occupation: Umbrella Maker
Andrew Roman 27
Maria Roman 20
Gertude Roman 3
Frank Roman 1


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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 11 Jan 2013 20:56

Which puts him with the Umbrella maker Patchem posted.


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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 11 Jan 2013 20:50

This fits for Byron's birth:
name: Byron Roman
gender: Male
baptism/christening date:
baptism/christening place:
birth date: 13 Apr 1882
birthplace: Brooklyn, Kings, New York
death date:
name note:
father's name: Andrew Roman
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Maria O'Donnell
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C71521-1
system origin: New_York-ODM
source film number: 1324377
reference number:
Collection: Byron Roman, "New York, Births and Christenings, 1640-1962"



MarieCeleste Report 11 Jan 2013 20:04

Have sent Steven a pm asking if he has any further info and explaining how to get back.


MarieCeleste Report 11 Jan 2013 08:26

I think Andrew Martin Roman needs lot of tidying up before we can try to find Francis (that' s if he is the right father - there was more than one Andrew Roman).

Steve's tree on Ancestry has a son Joseph born June 1883 USA to Annie Monk who was born 1869. Andrew apparently married 1889 in NY but if that 1880 census is right he was already married then.

Would like to sort this out but some family story from Steve would help.

Off to work now ........


patchem Report 11 Jan 2013 07:41

Is this Katie's death?
Deaths Sep 1909
ROMAN Kate 24 Whitechapel 1c 115

Katie Roman
Age: 11
Birth Date: 6 Jun 1885
School: North End Road School
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Admission Date: 2 Mar 1897
Parent: Andrew
Notes: North End Road School (0524) opened 1881
Reference Number: LCC/EO/DIV01/NER/AD/001

Sorry, got to go, but varied birth dates, so for brevity:
Name: Kate Roman
Birth: 6 Jun 1884
Residence: 17 Jul 1893

Name: Kate Roman
Parents: Andrew Roman
Birth: 4 Jun 1884
Residence: 23 May 1892

Name: Katie Roman
Birth: 6 Jun 1885
Residence: 2 Mar 1897

'Typical' father who cannot remember birth date??

Also, there is a Byron with father Andrew - related? No time to look further.

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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 11 Jan 2013 06:12

This looks to be Annie:

Births Dec 1864
MONK Ann Witney 3a 586

and parents:

Marriages Sep 1862
Monk Albert John Brooks Witney 3a 864
Preston Ann Witney 3a 864


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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 11 Jan 2013 06:00

Who was Katie's mother? She was born before both marriages.



GlitterBaby Report 11 Jan 2013 00:25

Matches address and occupation on 1911 census

Name: Andrew Roman
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Age: 61
Spouse Name: Annie Monk - spinster
Spouse Age: 50
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 11 Aug 1915
Parish: Bethnal Green St James the Great
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Francis Roman
Spouse Father Name: Albert John Mark - looks more like Monk on image
Register Type: Parish Register

Name: Andrew Martin Roman
Probate Date: 16 Nov 1922
Death Date: 17 Oct 1922
Death Place: Middlesex, England
Registry: London, England

Administration to Annie Roman, widow

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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 10 Jan 2013 23:51

Do you have the 1915 marriage cert?



patchem Report 10 Jan 2013 23:35

1850 United States Federal Census about Francis Roman
Name: Francis Roman
Age: 28
Birth Year: abt 1822
Birthplace: Hungary
Home in 1850: New York Ward 1 Western Division, New York, New York
Gender: Male
Family Number: 1493
Francis Roman 28 piano master/maker(?)
Catharine Roman 19 Ireland
Source Citation: Year: 1850; Census Place: New York Ward 1 Western Division, New York, New York; Roll: M432_534; Page: 187A; Image: 379.

Mike *

Mike * Report 10 Jan 2013 23:30

The marriage details are from familysearch