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George Reed/Read married to Elizabeth Scarr

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Caroline

Caroline Report 5 Feb 2013 12:25

Can anyone help with George Read please?

I am trying to search backwards for the place of birth.

On the 1851 census, his place of birth says SUFFOLK
On the 1861 census, his place of birth says SUFFOLK HALLHAM

I believe his DOB to be c1812

On 1851 census he is married with one son living in 11 Great Bath Street, Clerkenwell
on the 1861 census he is living with his wife Elizabeth and children George, William, Emma, John & Elizabeth plus a lodger, George Galloway.

This man George Read is proving to be as elusive as Atlantis! I am stuck!

Many thanks
Caroline

Caroline

Caroline Report 29 Jan 2013 22:43

Regarding point 6.....

I believe what has happened here is as follows:

Charlotte is a pauper inmate at the St Pancras workhouse school in Leavesden, Watford. When she is of an age to leave she has no birth certificate so does not know her fathers name. When she marries Edward Caplin, she simply puts her father down as deceased.

I have to do some more researching into the marriage with Walter Hand. I wondered if there might be a record of bigamous marriages anywhere? I haven't a clue where to even start looking.

If Charlotte DOES marry Walter Hand, maybe she has discovered her fathers identity and believes it to be the George Galloway Reed who is a lodger at one of the Peace Cottages.

I still have to find who to contact regarding the records for the workhouse school so I can see when and why Charlotte and her younger brother are admitted. If they are sent there when their mother dies in 1876, Charlotte would be 9 and Alfred only 5.

From what my mum (now aged 91) tells me, her mother - who is Charlottes eldest daughter - never celebrated a birthday or acknowledged them later in life in her own family and she certainly had no contact with Charlotte from when she was sent away around age 12. There was no contact with anyone from her parents families at all, although she did continue to interact with her sisters as my mum used to go and child mind for them during the 1930's.

Seems like I am trying to nail jelly to the ceiling here :-( thanks for help though, will get there in the end.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 29 Jan 2013 16:00

1891
SLINGSBY, Fredrick W Head Married M 63 1828 Tailor
St George Hanover Square
SLINGSBY, Phoebe Wife Married F 61 1830
Upton, Norfolk
SLINGSBY, Fredrick J Son Single M 34 1857 Cab Man
St Pancras, London
SLINGSBY, George Son Single M 25 1866 Cab Man
St Pancras, London
SLINGSBY, Ather Son Single M 23 1868 Cab Man
St Pancras, London
SLINGSBY, Hannah Daughter Single F 21 1870 Fancy Box Maker
St Pancras, London
SLINGSBY, Lousia A Daughter Single F 17 1874 Relief Stamper
St Pancras, London
Piece: 129
Folio: 131
Page: 14
Registration District: Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Municipal Borough:
Address: 51, King Street, St Pancras
County: London

Question 5...above looks to be F W Slingsby, witness Charlotte/Edward Marriage, so maybe when Emma got married, George was doing a bit of 'Tailor' work. (just a thought, as above is in area through Census years)

Chris :)

Caroline

Caroline Report 29 Jan 2013 13:15

okay, maybe a BIG recap would help here?

Charlotte Read
Brothers and sisters

George Walter Read
Name: George Walter Read
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 8 Feb 1857
Birth date: 28th Aug 1848
Father's Name: George Read, Cab Driver
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Ann Read
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bloomsbury St George
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers
Address: Little Guildford Street

William Edward Read
Name: William Edward Read
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 8 Feb 1857
Birth date: 3rd July 1851
Father's Name: George Read, Cab Driver
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Ann Read
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bloomsbury St George
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers
Address: Little Guildford Street

Emma Read
Name: Emma Read
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 8 Feb 1857
Birth date: 14 Dec. 1856
Father's Name: George Read, Cab Driver
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Ann Read
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bloomsbury St George
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers
Address: Little Guildford Street.

Charles John Read -----possibly Charles/John?
Name: Charles John Read
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 10 Oct 1858
baptism/christening place: St Peter, St Pancras, London
birth date: 23 Sep 1858
father's name: George Read
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C04259-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 579644

Elizabeth Ann Read
Name: Elizabeth Ann Read
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 30 Jun 1860
baptism/christening place: Old Church, St Pancras, London
birth date: 16 Jun 1860
father's name: George Read
mother's name: Elizabeth Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C04793-7
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 598173, 598174, 598175

Jane Emily Read
Name: Jane Emily Read
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 09 Mar 1863
baptism/christening place: Old Church, St Pancras, London
birth date: 14 Feb 1863
father's name: George Read
mother's name: Elizabeth Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C04793-7
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 598173, 598174, 598175

Frederick Arthur Read
Name: Frederick Arthur Read
Gender: Male
Baptism/christening date: 04 Jul 1864
Baptism/christening place: Old Church, St Pancras, London
Birth date: 30 May 1864
Father’s name: George Read
Mother’s name: Elizabeth
Indexing project (batch) number: C04793-7
System origin: England-ODM
Source film number: 598173, 598174, 598175

Charlotte Read
Name: Charlotte Read (my GG Granny)
Gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 23 Sep 1867
baptism/christening place: Old Church, St Pancras, London
birth date: 09 Sep 1867
father's name: George Read
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: K04563-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 598176
Must have been born at 13 Hastings Street - George jnr wedding banns gives this address for 1869

Alfred Read
Name: Alfred Read
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 11 Oct 1871
baptism/christening place: Old Church, St Pancras, London
birth date: 16 Sep 1871
father's name: George Read
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C04259-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 579644
Must have been born at 15 Peace Cottages, as this is the census address for 1871


Conclusions thus far:
1. Surname is READ not REED
2. Family from 1851 census needs further verification as name is spelt REED
3. George Read snr marries ONCE to Elizabeth White - name for all childrens mother is Elizabeth, on GG Grannys birth cert. mother is given as Elizabeth Read nee White.
4. I am not convinced that the George REED who marries Elizabeth White on 28th March 1847 is MY ancestor. Firstly the spelling (i know they all spelt oddly in those days). Also George is listed as a DRAPER
5. Why does Emma - on her marriage - give her fathers occupation as TAILOR?
6. How does GG Grannys father change from deceased when she marries Edward Caplin to being a George Galloway REED on the marriage to Walter Hand?
7. Is there ANY evidence that this marriage to Walter Hand is ACTUALLY my GG Granny at all?
8. WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE!?!?!?!?!

thank you again everyone who has been so patiently tolerating my ramblings. I am incredibly grateful for all the very valuable assistance you have taken the time and trouble to give. Thank you all.
:-)

Caroline

Caroline Report 28 Jan 2013 23:30

Thanks Chris
x

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 28 Jan 2013 22:00

1851
NOAKES, Robert H Head Married M 46 1805 Schoolmaster
Rochester, Kent
NOAKES, Ann Wife Married F 50 1801 Schoolmistress
Chatham, Kent
NOAKES, Maria Daughter Unmarried F 13 1838 Scholar At Home
Rochester, Kent
NOAKES, Emma Daughter Unmarried F 11 1840 Scholar At Home
Rochester, Kent
Piece: 1532
Folio: 207
Page: 40
Registration District: City of London
Civil Parish: All Hallows London Wall
Municipal Borough: London
Address: 27a, Wormwood Street, All Hallows London Wall, London
County: Middlesex

(just adding the witness, in case of anything!)

Chris :)

(glad the cert. arrived)

Caroline

Caroline Report 28 Jan 2013 21:06

Thanks Anne, have Pm'd you back!!

I am swaying more to the idea that the Reads I am after are spelt READ. This is the spelling on Charlottes birth certificate too. Also is the spelling on the census for Peace Cottages.

Also, perhaps the reason why the two elder boys are not baptised until 1957 is because the parents are unmarried until 1856...

Thank you everyone again for all the help.

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 28 Jan 2013 20:05

Caroline,
I have forgotten half of the stuff on this thread but the marriage of George Reed and Elizabeth White is available on Anc.
They married on 28 Mar 1847 in London ( St Ethelburgen?)
George was a draper. Father William Reed a farmer.
Elizabeth was the daughter of John White a carpenter.
Both bride and groom lived in Wormwood Street .
Witnesses: Sarah Jane Riley and Robert Harrison Noakes.

Will Pm this to you
Edit: if this is the correct couple, it means all their children were born within the marriage.

Anne

Caroline

Caroline Report 28 Jan 2013 12:43

Thank you all for above help.

Finally, after waiting forever, Charlottes birth certificate has arrived.

Her mothers maiden name is given as Elizabeth White.

This now confirms her fathers first and only marriage is to Elizabeth White - looks likely that there were two sons born out of wedlock and she was pregnant with Emma when they eventually married but marriage cert will confirm this.

Am still waiting for the marriage certificate for George and Elizabeth now.

Thank you all so much again!! What would i do without you all???

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 28 Jan 2013 12:00

Name: Elizabeth Ann Fox Bassett, Spinster
Spouse Name: George Reed, Coachman, Bachelor
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 Jul 1856
Parish: Paddington St John
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: William Bassett, Policeman
Spouse Father Name: George Reed, Carpenter
Register Type: Parish Register

Address for both Torrington Mews.

Witnesses James Newman and Alice Cross



This looks like the Elizabeth who married in 1853 on the 1861 census

Name: Ralph Gardner
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Gardner
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Mortlake
Ecclesiastical parish: London
Town: Mortlake
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Richmond
Sub-registration district: Mortlake
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 153
Piece: 461
Folio: 31
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Ralph Gardner 32
Elizabeth Gardner 31
Ralph Gardner 7
Annie Gardner 4
Ellen Bassett 3
Earnest Collinge 24

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 28 Jan 2013 11:30


Elizabeth Ann Bassett Jan-Feb-Mar 1853 Westminster St Margaret London
married either

Robert Dawson Jan-Feb-Mar 1853 Westminster St Margaret London
Ralph Gardner Jan-Feb-Mar 1853 Westminster St Margaret London

NB: Elizabeth Ann Fox Bassett stated she was a spinster when she married George Reed in Paddington 1856

Caroline

Caroline Report 28 Jan 2013 11:08

Morning all.

Could somebody look this up for me please?

Marriage
Elizabeth Ann Bassett
Jan-Feb-Mar
1853
Westminster
London

I need to see if the person she is marrying is called FOX

Thanks in advance

Caroline

Caroline Report 20 Jan 2013 18:55

In the marriage between George Reed and Elizabeth Ann in 1856....
Two eldest children would be aged 8 and 5 and Elizabeth would be 4 months pregnant with baby Emma.

I am wondering if George was previously married and a widow? If so, then his first wife would also have to be an Elizabeth as the 1851 census shows George Reed with wife Elizabeth and Son George aged 2. However, the difference in age between husband and wife is only 7 years. On the 1861 & 1871 census, the difference has jumped to 17 years.

Wondering if she died giving birth to William in 1851 perhaps? William was born in July 1851 and there is an Elizabeth Reed who is listed in the deaths of Jul-Aug-Sep quarter of 1851.....

Think maybe I need to get Williams birth certificate - would his mothers name including maiden name be on there? If I also get Charlottes birth certificate, maybe we might see a different maiden name for mother? Possibly also for father?

Am sounding this out to you folks to see if it sounds plausible.
Thanks
Caroline

Caroline

Caroline Report 19 Jan 2013 22:36

Chris Ho.....the burial you gave me seems to be the right me, thank you!!

This is for Elizabeth Ann Read who died at 15 Peace Cottages in November 1876

The pieces are starting to come together, thank you again

Caroline

Caroline Report 19 Jan 2013 15:42

my head is spinning!

I have printed all of the info given here and all of the census sheets tto. Some marrying up to be done and then will finally be a bit clearer in my poor head.

i was looking through the school records thingy, was trying to find Charlotte Reed as this may also list the fathers name (i noticed it did on others), possibly an address too. If I could find Charlotte there, then perhaps I could also find out if the Alfred mentioned on the workhouse school census is her younger brother as his father might be there too.

onwards and....well.....onwards really!!

Thanks again all
x

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Jan 2013 00:36

Oh Dear,
I still have an inkling that this man's name may indeed be George Galloway REED.

Caroline

Caroline Report 18 Jan 2013 00:07

Aww, have to strike him off then. Was plucking at straws a bit wasnt I? Sorry Anne.

I have checked loads of variations and I just cannot find hide nor hair of my George Galloway before 1861. I have even checked on the Scottish Galloways and found nothing which could match up.

Am speaking with my cousin tomorrow so will definitely be nagging her for any other certificates she has.

Thanks again for all the help, much appreciated.

Question....
Does anyone think it would help (or hinder) to post a thread on Galloway? I don't want to do it wrong again!! :)

:-) :-)

Caroline

Caroline Report 18 Jan 2013 00:07

Aww, have to strike him off then. Was plucking at straws a bit wasnt I? Sorry Anne.

I have checked loads of variations and I just cannot find hide nor hair of my George Galloway before 1861. I have even checked on the Scottish Galloways and found nothing which could match up.

Am speaking with my cousin tomorrow so will definitely be nagging her for any other certificates she has.

Thanks again for all the help, much appreciated.

Question....
Does anyone think it would help (or hinder) to post a thread on Galloway? I don't want to do it wrong again!! :)

:-) :-)

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 17 Jan 2013 22:42

George Galloway who died in 1895?

is possibly him?
1851 England Census about George Christopher Galloway
Name: George Christopher Galloway
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen Galloway
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil parish: Plumstead
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Condition as to marriage:
Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Plumstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 2e
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 40
Piece: 1590
Folio: 271
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
George Christopher Galloway 30
Ellen Galloway 28
William Galloway 7
Mary Ann Galloway 4
George Galloway 2
!861.... Can;t find this George or his family.

1871 England Census about George C Galloway
Name: George C Galloway
[George Christopher Galloway]
[George C Hudson]
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eleanor Galloway
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, Woolwich, England
[England]
Civil parish: Woolwich St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Woolwich
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich Arsenal
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 179
Piece: 782
Folio: 24
Page Number: 41
Household Members:
Name Age
George C Galloway 53
Eleanor Galloway 52
Mary C Galloway 24
George Galloway 22
James Galloway 20
John Galloway 18
Fanny Galloway 16
Henry Galloway 12
John Galloway 51
John Hudson 12
Address: 5 Surgeon Street.

1881 England Census about George Galloway
Name: George Galloway
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen Galloway
Gender: Male
Where born: South Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil parish: Woolwich
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 13 Globe Lane
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Agricultural Labourer
Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich Arsenal
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 746
Folio: 13
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
George Galloway 65
Ellen Galloway 62
George Galloway 29
Henry Galloway 17

1891 England Census about George C Galloway
Name: George C Galloway
Age: 72
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen Galloway
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: River Thames off Woolwich
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich Arsenal
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 532
Folio: 31
Page Number: 55
Household Members:
Name Age
George C Galloway 72 *** BLIND
Ellen Galloway 70

Address 4 Collingwood Street.
This man's POB is consistently given as KENT

Caroline

Caroline Report 17 Jan 2013 21:32

Can anyone look these school records up for me please?

Name: William Reed
Age: 8
Birth Date: abt 1852
School: St Michael's School
Borough: Westminster
Admission Date: 7 May 1860
Notes: Non-provided school (0418): previously known as Saint Michael's National School until 1907, (the term National was no longer used after that date)
Reference Number: LCC/EO/DIV02/STMIC2/AD/002

This record MAY have the names of the parents and possibly an address.

Thanks