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Reached a Brick Wall - Don't know what to do next?

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Beverley Report 31 Jan 2016 03:22

My thanks for information above, our Death Cert. are good in Victoria, Aust. Certificate has Deceased, Marriage(s), Children, Parents, Medical, Burial or Cremation, Informant and last Reg. Officer - and of course Reg. No. at top of form.
Of course it is only as good as what the informant knows. But I think it is great, good information.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 30 Jan 2016 21:30

(think she may be below)

Chris :)

Deaths Dec 1921 (>99%)
Black Mary A 62 Islington 1b 221

(if above, her Burial on below)


Quinsgran Report 30 Jan 2016 21:27

UK death certs don't give family members. The only thing you get is the informants name
Here in NZ our death certs contain place of birth and if not born in NZ how long lived in the country. Death cert also says how many children whether sons or daughters but no names. The parents names of the deceased including mothers maiden name.

So very useful for family history
This is what is on recent certs. Not sure about years ago


Beverley Report 30 Jan 2016 21:10

Hello again Chris, I guess that may have her family listed on her Death Cert. do they do that in England - have the family members and their ages listed? If anyone could advise that would be good.


Beverley Report 30 Jan 2016 21:00

Chris, No I haven't got her Death Cert. for 1935.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 30 Jan 2016 15:30

Have you got that Death Cert. for her 1935?...

Chris :)


Beverley Report 30 Jan 2016 11:20

Thank you very much for this next piece of the puzzle AustinQ.
I did think at one time that I would never find my GG Aunt Mary Ann Smith Findlay - she was the only one of the 10 children, and being the first born too, that I or any of the Findlay family knew anything about. I was so pleased when I found her at long last.
If only there were living relations of Mary Ann Smith Findlay that would contact me to tell me more that would be the icing on cake after all these years of searching. Thank you. :-)


AustinQ Report 30 Jan 2016 10:51

Scotland Births and Baptisms 1564-1950 Transcription

First name(s) Agnes Jane Keir
Last name Findlay
Gender Female
Birth year 1881
Birth place Montrose, Forfar, Scotland
Mother's first name(s) Mary Ann
Mother's last name Findlay
Residence Scotland
Place Montrose
County Forfarshire (Angus)
Country Scotland


AustinQ Report 30 Jan 2016 10:49

Mary's other daughter, Agness was illegitimate (born Findlay not Black)-

AGNES JANE KEIR FINDLAY- 1881 Montrose, Angus

Here she is in 1891 with Mary's father:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Mount Road, Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

Alexander Findlay Head Wid Male 57 1834 Retired Army Pensioner Forfar, Forfarshire
Frederick A Findlay Son Unmarried Male 19 1872 Trumpeter R A England
Agnes Findlay Granddaughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus),
Mary Milne Aunt Unmarried Female 71 1820 Annitant Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus),


Beverley Report 30 Jan 2016 10:18

Thank you so much to everyone for all the above information - I will need time to go through it all carefully.
I do appreciate every piece of information supplied. Thanks again.


AustinQ Report 30 Jan 2016 10:00

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) CHARLES F
Last name JOHNSON
Gender Male
Birth year 1884
Age 71
Death quarter 4
Death year 1955
County London
Volume 5C Page 975

JOHNSON, Charles Frederick of 37 Ecclesbourne Road, Essex Road, London N.1 died 8 December 1955 Administration London 9 January to Mary Jane Johnson widow.


HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 30 Jan 2016 09:33

Here's Mary Jane in 1911

Name: Jane Mary Johnson
Age in 1911: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Civil Parish: Islington
Search Photos: Search for 'Islington' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 35 Ecclesbourne Road, Islington N
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 5
Estimated Marriage Year: 1906
Registration district: Islington
Registration District Number: 10
Sub-registration district: Islington South East
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 916
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Frederick Johnson 27
Jane Mary Johnson 27
Reginald Charles Johnson 2
Victoria Alexandra Johnson 4
Hilda May Johnson

Can't confirm AustinQ's 1901 by occupation because she had obviously become a full time wife and mother...but that 1901 looks good to me!



AustinQ Report 30 Jan 2016 08:30

I wonder if this is Mary and Daughter in 1901- they do state Mary Ann for both- but ages tie in:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
35, Davenant Road, Islington, London, England

Mary Ann Black Head Married Female 39 1862 - Scotland
Mary Ann Black Daughter Single Female 16 1885 Corset Maker Scotland


AustinQ Report 30 Jan 2016 08:28

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Inverury Street, Fordoun, Kincardineshire, Scotland

John Allan Head Married Male 61 1830 Retired Carrier Glenbervie, Kincardineshire,
Jane Allan Wife Married Female 45 1846 - Benholm, Kincardineshire,
Mary Ann Black Step Daughter Married Female 31 1860 - Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus),
Mary J Black Granddaughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus),


HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 30 Jan 2016 08:11

A tree on Ancestry has Mary Ann and Mary Jane in Fourdoun with John Allan and Jane Allan - she is their granddaughter. John's mother was - again according to the tree - called Jane; John was illegitimate and she later married a Mr Allan

Looked on Scotlands People - always have credits :-) - the only Agnes (with one s) was born in Guthrie Angus in 1880 - illegitimate; mother Jessie Black postal letter carrier.

I wonder if "Jenny" is Mary Jane?



AustinQ Report 30 Jan 2016 08:04

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Gainford Street, Islington, London, England

Emma Bell Head Widow Female 27 1864 - Islington, Middlesex,
Mary H Bell Daughter - Female 3 1888 - Islington, Middlesex,
Robert G L Bell Son - Male 1 1890 - Islington, Middlesex,
John Black Visitor Married Male 28 1863 Baker Montrose, Angus, Scotland

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 30 Jan 2016 07:58

No idea on that, sorry!...

Chris :)

edits (according to below, from google search, Deaths as below!)

Deaths Jun 1935 (>99%)
Black John 72 Islington 1b 297
Black Mary A 76 Islington 1b 313

Burial Register summary
Black John
Burial date
28 May 1935
Authority London Borough of Islington
Location Islington Cemetery (Islington)

(not seeing Mary above 1935?)


Quinsgran Report 30 Jan 2016 07:52

Chris Ho

are those 2 crossed out names because they are not at home but living somewhere else do you think. My Ancestry sub expired and I haven't renewed so can't check myself

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 30 Jan 2016 07:42

1911 (Find My Past) (Reference)
John Black Head Married Male Baker 48 1863 Montrose
Mary Black Wife Married Female - 50 1861 Forfar
Address 35 Ecclesbourne Road
Parish Islington
County London
Census reference RG14 PN916 RG78 PN32 RD10 SD6 ED14 SN266
(says Married 29yrs, 2 children born, 2 living)

1911 (Find My Past)
Charles Frederick Johnson Head Married Male Postman 27 1884 London Clerkenwell
Jane Mary Johnson Wife Married Female - 27 1884 Montrose Horforshire
Reginald Charles Johnson Son - Male - 2 1909 London Islington
Victoria Alexander Johnson Daughter - Female - 4 1907 London Islington
Hilda May Johnson Daughter - Female - 0 (8mths) 1911 London Islington
Address 35 Ecclesbourne Road Islington N
Parish Islington
County London
Census reference RG14 PN916 RG78 PN32 RD10 SD6 ED14 SN265

Chris :)

(2 females crossed through, Jenny? 26, Agness 28)

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 (Ancestry)

1935 John Black
Islington Islington East and North 37 Ecclesbourne Road

(also below with Johnsons, no Mary)

John Black 1922 Islington Islington East and South 41 Ecclesbourne Road

1939 Register Transcription (Preview) (Find My Past)

Islington 37 Ecclesbourne Road
Charles F Johnson 1884
Mary J Johnson and 1 more person are on this record

Marriages Jun 1906 (>99%)
Black Mary Jane Islington 1b 579
Johnson Charles Frederick Islington 1b 579

Deaths Dec 1921 (>99%)
Black Mary A 62 Islington 1b 221

(if above, her Burial on below)


Beverley Report 30 Jan 2016 05:27

Yes thank you. I still need information on the children (need clarification on names because of Census cross outs) I guess I have to wait for the next Census to come out, but unsure by that time that I will find what I need as they would be married by then.