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I've found some births I'm looking for on free bmd for children of the Samuel family: Edward (b1905) Charles Ernest (1908) Lilian Rose (1906) and a Lilian (1901). I think there might also have been a Sid, but nothing listed for him in that area.

I don't have any address other than the Rotherhithe/bermondsey area. Can anyone suggest where else I can get any other info before I consider applying for birth certs?

Thanks a lot

Have you found them on the 1911 census.?
Do you have the parents names?

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Lilian Rose Samuel
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 11 Nov 1906
Father's Name: Joseph William Samuel - Dealer
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Samuel
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe St Katharine
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Lived 21 Jessingdon Street.
_______________________________________________________________

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Henry Edward Samuel
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 11 Jun 1905
Father's Name: Joseph William Samuel - General Dealer
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Samuel
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe St Katharine
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

1911

RG14PN1930 RG78PN68 RD24 SD3 ED17 SN215
Reg. District: St Olave (Bermondsey)
Sub District: Rotherhithe
Parish: Bermondsey
Enum. District: 17
Address: 21 Tissington St Rotherhithe
County: London


SAMUEL, Joseph W Head Married M 38 1873 General Labouer Essex
SAMUEL, Mary J Wife Married F 37 1874 Bermondsey
SAMUEL, Ellen V Daughter Single F 10 1901 Rotherhithe
SAMUEL, Joseph T Son M 8 1903 Rotherhithe
SAMUEL, Lillian R Daughter F 4 1907 Rotherhithe
SAMUEL, Charles E Son M 2 1909 Rotherhithe Surrey


married 16 years

7 children born, 4 still living

1911 England Census about Joseph T Samuel
Name: Joseph T Samuel
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1903
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Rotherhithe
Civil parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 21 Tissington Street, Rotherhithe
Marital Status: Single
Registration district: St Olave (Bermondsey)
Registration District Number: 24
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Piece: 1930
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph W Samuel 38
Mary J Samuel 37
Ellen V Samuel 10
Joseph T Samuel 8
Lilian R Samuel 4
Charles E Samuel 2

Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 1930; ; .

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Ellen Pretoria May Samuel
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Feb 1901
Father's Name: William Samuel
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Samuel
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe St Katharine
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers
_____________________________________________________

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Florence Louise Samuel
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 6 Sep 1896
Father's Name: Joseph Samuel
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Samuel
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe St Katharine
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Births Sep 1905 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samuel Henry Edward St. Olave 1d 244


Deaths Mar 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samuel Henry Edward 4 St Olave Bermondsey 1d 104

Births Sep 1896 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samuel Florence Louise St. Olave 1d 303


Deaths Mar 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samuel Florence Louisa 3 St. Olave 1d 220


Births Jun 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samuel Mary Jane St. Olave 1d 290


Deaths Mar 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samuel Mary Jane 1 St. Olave 1d 223

Only three children said to have died - I have found four 'possibles'



EDIT - have deleted William George Samuel, in view of MarieCeleste's posting at 22.13

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Joseph Thomas Samuel
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 7 Sep 1902
Father's Name: Joseph William Samuel
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Samuel
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe St Katharine
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers
________________________________________________________

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Mary Jane Samuel
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 May 1898
Father's Name: Joseph William Samuel
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Samuel
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe St Katharine
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Choccy - William George wasn't their son (he belonged to Thomas John & Annie Louisa).

The deaths for Mary Jane, Florence Louisa and Henry Edward match up to the baptisms.

Charles Ernest born too late to be on the baptisms which only go up to 1906.

Joseph William Samuel <<Carman of 27 St Helena Rd
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Age: 22
Spouse Name: Mary Jane Holland <<of 198 Fort Rd.
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1895
Parish: Bermondsey St Anne
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Thomas Hampshire Samuel <<labourer
Register Type: Parish Register

Her father Henry Holland, carpenter
Witnesses Thomas John Samuel & Matilda ??

Mary Jane Holland
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 16 Jul 1877
Father's Name: Henry Holland (Carpenter)
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Holland
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey Christ Church
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

States born 13/9/1875 in margin.

Mary J Holland
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry Holland
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Holland
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 375
Folio: 35
Page Number: 61
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Holland 53 <<carpenter, born Southwark
Elizabeth Holland 49
Louisa Holland 21
Mary J Holland 16
Edwin Holland 14

Others born Bermondsay

Many thanks for all that everyone! However, its odd about the William George born to Thomas & Maryann as no-one in the family has every mentioned him and he;'s not cropped up on anything else thus far. Perhaps they weren't aware of his existence. do you have a birth/death date for him, please?

much appreciated everyone.

HLH - I posted above that the mother was Anna Louisa (no mention of a Mary Ann?) Different family but may be related?

Here's that baptism:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: William George Samuel
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 Jun 1902
Father's Name: Thomas John Samuel - Dock Labourer
Mother's Name: Annie Louisa Samuel
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe St Katharine
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

They lived 27 St Helena Road.
___________________________________________________________

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915

Name: William George Samuel
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1903
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1903
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: St Olave Bermondsey
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 143

Found Mary Jane's baptism:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Mary Jane Holland
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 16 Jul 1877 - born 13 Sep 1875
Father's Name: Henry Holland - Carpenter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Holland
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey Christ Church
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Lived somewhere that looks like 13 Flop Row.

... and her parent's marriage:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Henry Holland - Carpenter
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Ann Terry
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 Apr 1863
Parish: Bermondsey St Luke
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Holland - Carpenter
Spouse Father Name: Henry Terry - Waterman.
Register Type: Parish Register

Neither previously married. Address for both 12 Heath Terrace, Penge.

Witnesses Edward Holland and Harriett Holland

MarieCeleste: sorry, another brainstrom by me, I'm afraid. When I was going to type Annie's name I had Maryann in my head. Duh!

Many thanks

I know what you mean HLH - these records do start to send you boggle-eyed!

We've got an Ellen Norman I think was born in 1884 (officially known as Agnes Ellen). Her mother was Maryann Bennett who married Thomas Samuel - he died in 1888.

Maryann subsequently remarried - to aThomas Norman in 1891. I am certain that Ellen's surname must surely be Samuel (as she was born 4 yrs before Thomas Samuel died) and yet there is nothing on the free bmd births for that surname - only under Norman.

I will apply for the BC but in the meantime Is anyone able to trace any baptism record, please, so that I get the right surname on the cert?

The only other thing is maybe Maryann divorced prior to the death of Thomas Samuel. suppose they didn't have divorce records in those days.