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John Smith McKeand 1853 -1937

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 11 May 2013 22:47

You could try sending AnnMac a PM (personal message) just click on her name...
she hasnt been on the boards since her January posting....
I recall her mentioning about JSMc walking from Kirk.


EDIT...Just found another thread from AnnMac Feb.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1319086

Unknown

Unknown Report 11 May 2013 21:06

David McKeand is my line, he was born in Borgue, and his 2 brothers were also Policemen in Toxteth Park, his brother James is my 2x Gr. Grandfather and we have his burial in Toxteth Park. James' father was William married to Mary Hair and staying at Senwick, buried at Twynholm, and Williams father was Alexander, which at the moment I am presuming is the Alexander at Upper Senwick in the1841 Census. Alexander was married to Mary Dowall but I have looked for a few years and am convinced John Smith McKeand is related as I find it hard to believe they all went from Kirkcudbrightshire to Liverpool and joined the police force and are not related. I did read somewhere years ago that John Smith McKeand walked from Kirkcudbrightshire to Liverpool but can't remember where I found this info. Will keep digging

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 31 Jan 2013 14:55

Eringobragh
Thanks for your tips. I have contacted the Lanc Constab about his personnel record, which will cost me £20 but may be interesting. I'm actually quite well informed already about his life post 1873 when he joined manchester police.
What I'm stuck on is trying to find out about his earlier life, whether he had siblings, who his parents were etc. And whether the family myth that he walked from Dumfries to Manchester when times were hard (pre or post 1871 census is anyone's guess!) is true. There are other McKeand families in Liverpool some of whom are policemen so I'm trying to work out if they might be relatives - hence the need to track where he started from.
Others on this thread have pointed me towards a couple John McKen and Elizabeth McCourtie,who could be his parents, but I can't seem to access the census pages that are being quoted here to check whether the fine detail shows any actual link.
Any tips on finding these census pages on Scotlands people (I have some credits!) on Genesreunited or with any better search tool would be gratefully received.

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 30 Jan 2013 17:45

You should be able to get some info from the site I listed yesterday regarding his service ..appears to be his ?enlistment looking at the dates. Given that his marriage was Reg.Garstang and Mary came from Shirehead I would be looking at that area...
His later service appears to be in the Blackburn Const. where he rose through the Ranks to Superintendent

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 30 Jan 2013 16:19

Oh dear! Fancy discovering your great grandfather was a party pooper who closed down brass bands! Not sure I want to go on tryin gto find out when and where he was born and who his parents were after that! :-(
Am still totally stumpedon establishing any link between the John McKend/Elizabeth McCourtie family and my John Smith McKeand. I can see them living in the right area in 1851 before he was born but no sign of his birth record or of him or the family in later censuses.
I'm wondering if you guys are using better search engines or techniques than I am - this Genes Reunited search engine keeps just saying no matches. Very dispiriting!

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 30 Jan 2013 12:07

Dont know if you have this...(Actual Transcripts of case held at Preston Archives)

Rishton Brass Band (Preston)
Lancashire Quarter Sessions - Preston, Midsummer 1904 - "Notice and grounds of appeal of Walter Albert Duckworth, weaver, and Secretary of Rishton Brass Band Institute, and Joshua Duckworth, steward, against order that the club be struck off the register of clubs following complaint of John Smith McKeand of Church, superintendent of police" Then, "Order of the Court of Summary Jurisdiction that Rishton Brass Band Institute be struck off the register of clubs for habitually contravening the rules"

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 30 Jan 2013 11:03

Unknown, sorry yes it was Jane Smith McKend birth that I looked at. The parents were definately John and Elizabeth. From that record John, the father was 43 so he had married when he was 20. Elizabeth may have been a couple of years younger so not impossible to be having children in the 1850s? Both my mother and my sister didn't have their first child until they were 25 and there is 21 years between the eldest and youngest child of both those marriages.

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 29 Jan 2013 22:03

Rootgatherer - I'm really grateful but a tad confused!
Whose birth have you found with a fatherJohn McKeand farm labourer aged 43?Was it jane smith mckeand? That record doesn't seem to quite match the marriage to Elizabeth McCourtie in 1832.
I've tried to find these records myself and I'm failing dismally! The 1841 family that you've listed with parents aged 25 and 4 daughters might be mine - the older siblings of john Smith and jane smith mckeand- but to show that surely I'd have to find them in 1851 and then 1861 but I can't seem to get any results that match. It would also be heck of a long reproductive lifespan for Elizabeth, married in 1832 and still giving birth in 1855. Makes me tired just to think of it!

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 29 Jan 2013 19:23

This may help....So he was certainly in the Lancashire area at that time... You can send for his details on this link...
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/education/record_office/records/policesearch.asp


First names: JohnSmith
Surname: McKeand
Location: Lancashire

Records are held for Lancashire Constabulary, for period of 1873-1874 (REF: PLA 11/18)



Also a William Chambers McKeand 1909-1912

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 29 Jan 2013 18:40

????

1841

Name: Mr. John Reand
[John McKeand]
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Civil parish: Borgue
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Upper Senwick
Occupation: Ag Lab
Parish Number: 858
Household Members:
Name Age
Mr. John Reand 25
Elisabeth Reand 25
Margaret Reand 8
Janet Reand 6
Mary Reand 3
Elisabeth Reand 10 Mo
Mexander Reand 70



The corrections added

Name
John McKeand rather than John Reand
See freecen.org.uk
Submitted by santosjames on 07/11/2012

Comments
John McKeand husband Elizabeth McCourtie married: 27 Jul 1832 Buittle, Kirkcudbright... Son Alexander & Mary
Submitted by santosjames on 07/11/2012



Freecen version

Piece: SCT1841/858 Place: BORGUE -Kirkcudbrightshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Borgue Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 2
Address: Upper Senwick

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MCKEAND John M 25 Agricultural Labourer Kirkcudbrightshire
MCKEAND Elisabeth F 25 Kirkcudbrightshire
MCKEAND Margaret F 8 Kirkcudbrightshire
MCKEAND Janet F 6 Kirkcudbrightshire
MCKEAND Mary F 3 Kirkcudbrightshire
MCKEAND Elisabeth F 10m Kirkcudbrightshire
MCKEAND Alexander M 70 Agricultural Labourer Kirkcudbrightshire

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 29 Jan 2013 18:17

Looked at that Birth on SP

Father John McKend a Farm Servant aged 43 years.
Parents married 1834 Kelton.

2 boys and 2 Girls living 1 Boy and 1 Girl had died.

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 29 Jan 2013 18:15

I fear I have already searched in Liverpool in 1871 and 1861 (in case my chap came as child with his family) but no joy. There is a scottish born David McKeand policeman and family living quite close to where my family was (West Derby and Toxteth Park keep cropping up as locations for my grandmother and her sisters)- but they are the wrong forename, age and offspring's names to be my ancestor himself. I was considering checking out if this might be an uncle or cousin who struck out from the home country and sent back good news so a younger relative followed in his career footsteps.

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 29 Jan 2013 17:58

If you do a quick search for McKeand...Lancashire 1871 onwards....(use search on this site) you will see there are a couple or more McKeand's listed for Toxteth Park and West Derby from Kirk./Dumfries...It may be worthwhile looking initially at Liverpool for other family if you havent already done so....

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 29 Jan 2013 17:55

This is from Scotlandspeople website showing what you can expect to see on a Statutory birth record.

Births
The following table indicates when particular details were introduced to and/or removed from statutory birth registration. Please note that only images of statutory births from 1855 to 1910 are presently available to view on this site.

Registers of Births Date Range
Child: name, sex, date, time & place of birth 1855 to date
Mother: name & maiden surname 1855 to date
Mother: occupation (usually shown only if parents not married or no father's name given) 1855 - 1998
Mother: occupation 1999 to date
Mother: age & place of birth 1855 only
Father: name & rank, profession or occupation 1855 to date
Father: age & place of birth 1855 only
Parents: date & place of marriage 1855 only, then 1861 to date
Siblings: parents' other children, living or deceased (numbers and sex only) 1855 only
Informant: qualification & signature (address if different from location of birth) 1855 to date
Registrar: date & place of registration, signature 1855 to date


So if you get some credits and checkout the birth in 1855 for Jane Smith McKeand it may help you.

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 29 Jan 2013 17:51

Rootgather again. Thanks for the suggestion of looking for a possible sibling in the 1855 births because they give such good level of detail. I'm afraid i already tried that - can't honestly remember now what I found and I seem to have lost my notes - but it didn't get me to the answer I'm looking for. The amazing thing I'm learning from all these dead ends tho' is the curiuos family set ups that there were in those days - kids produced in eye watering numbers, offspring parked with relatives and daughters sent into domestic service at very young ages. It's hiostory in the raw, even iof it isn't my exact ancestors!

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 29 Jan 2013 17:50

I posted that census showing the John McKeand born 1851 just to eliminate as he seems from that correction on Ancestry to have died in Canada - so he can't be yours.


AnnMac

AnnMac Report 29 Jan 2013 17:43

Rootgatherer. Not sure I quite understand your post . This help is coming in so thick and fast I can't keep up! If the John McKeand you've found died in Canada then He can't be my 1853 born gt grandfather becuase he died in wirral Cheshire in 1937. Am I safe to ignore that possible line of enquiry or am I being dense?
Ann

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 29 Jan 2013 17:30

Might be worth checking out that 1855 birth for Jane Smith McKeand on Scotlandspeople. I think the 1855 entries give more info than later ones.

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 29 Jan 2013 17:29

Thank you everyone for these suggestions.
BrummieJan - I had also found the 1871Census entry with John visitng a household with a servant called Jean Mckeand, possibly younger sister. Thought that was a lead but I can't find a family in 1861 with a bro' and sister called john and jean from Dumfries. I'll look into the Jane McKend option and see if I can find that family in 1861.
The Agnes Reid mother thread does make him at least 2 years too old but I'll check it out.
Not there yet but you've renewed my enthusiasm for pressing on with this!

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 29 Jan 2013 17:27

This is the John born in 1851

Name: John Mckeand
[John McKen]
Age: 4 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Glencairn, Dumfries
Parish Number: 826
Civil parish: Glencairn
Town: Dunreggan
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Dunreggan
ED: 7
Page: 9 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 53
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1851_207
Household Members:
Name Age
James Reid 61
Agnes Reid 53
Agnes Reid 29
Hannah Reid 27
Catherine Reid 25
Grace Reid 12
James Reid 3
John Mckeand 3 months

And the correction added

John McKen rather than John Mckeand
John McKen is the son of Agnes Reid. John dies in Yorkton, Saskatchewan, Canada.