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Hi. I am searching for the birthplace of one William Hutchinson. Here`s what I know:

Born 1817
Married Eleanor Rose Barns in Tendring Essex, 1848
Had a son, Albert, born in Tendring in 1849.
Left Plymouth aboard SS Sovereign on 24/11/1849 bound for Cape Town.
Had a second son, Walter John ( also known as Walter Jolly ) in 1853 in Pietermaritzburg, Natal.
Died 30 July1890, Pietermaritzburg, Natal.

I suspect he was born around the Sussex, Essex, Cambridgeshire area.

Duncan.

What does 1841 census say about his birthplace?

What does his marriage cert say about his father?

Have you looked for info on the IGI?

Why not order the marriage certificate to get father's name?

Marriages Jun 1848 (>99%)
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Barns Eleanor Rose Tendring 12 381
HUTCHINSON William Tendring 12 381

Folks

1.) Because he emigrated to South Africa in 1849, he missed all census`s except 1841. There are 47 Hutchinsons listed there. And if one does not know the birthplace, as you can imagine, it becomes a chicken & egg game with parish records.

2.) I have ordered the Marriage certificate, but it simply states his & spouses name, date & venue.

His widow, Eleanor Rose Hutchinson returned to the UK in 1895 after his death, & finally died in Christchurch , Hampshire in 1915. I have requested that death cert too.

Here`s hoping!

Duncan

The only death I can see is in her maiden name - is this the death you are referring to?

Deaths Jun 1915 (>99%)
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Barns Eleanor 89 Christchurch 2b 950

If it is, this is the probate record:

Eleanor Barns <<widow of 25 Kings Park Rd. Bournemouth
Probate Date: 7 Jun 1915
Death Date: 22 Apr 1915
Death Place: Bournemouth, Dorset, England
Registry: London, England

Probate to Alice Rogers Barns (spinster) - £12943 18s 4d

According to the 1911 census they were living at the same address, Alice Rogers-Barns was her adopted daughter, born c1862 Bombay, India. Eleanor born Anglesea Wales - so it is doubtful this is connected.

A marriage certificate from 1848 should tell you more than just their names, the venue and the date ....... that's what you see on the record for it on freebmd.

You have to buy the certificate to find out more ......... but it should tell you their ages, occupation(s), address(es) where living, names and occupations of their fathers, and names of witnesses ...................... ie, exactly what you find on modern-day certificates.

This looks like the family that the probate record is for.

National Archive Reference:
RG14PN5861 RG78PN267 RD95 SD2 ED30 SN240
Reg. District: Christchurch
Sub District: Bournemouth
Parish: Bournemouth
Enum. District: 30
Address: 25 King's Park Road Springbourne Bournemouth
County: Hampshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
BARNS, Alice Rogers Head Single F 49 1862 Retired Governess India Bombay Resident
BARNS, Eleanor Mother By Adopted Widow F (N K) Retired School Mistress Private Wales Anglesea
RICKETTS, Susan Servant Single F 60 1851 Cook Domestic Somerset Yeovil
DAVIS, Maggie Rose Servant Single F 19 1892 House - Parlourmaid Domestic Hants Bournemouth Springbourne

It can't be the right death, as Eleanor and Alice Roger-Barns are on all the census together back to 1881, and Eleanor was recorded as a widow on each, with Alice as her adopted daughter.

No it's obviously not the right one. I have traced them right back too.

So I wonder which death Duncan has found??

I can't see Eleanor on incoming passenger lists either, but there is a possible re-marriage for William in Pietermaritzburg 11/1/1856 - to Louisa Bishop (age 30), they were both widowed, and his birth given as 1817.

Can't find a death for Eleanor though

The marriage cert must include at least the names of witnesses.........what are they? They could provide clues

If no father is named for either party, the assumption must be that both were illegitimate

There isn't a death in Christchurch district in 1915 for anyone name Eleanor R *******.

What leads you to think she returned to England? Do you have documents to support the theory?

Who registered William's death?

Folks

Some really good dialogue and excellent work. I have had a researcher track down William Hutchinson. Born Brighton 1816. So, the Hutchinson tree that migrated to Africa in 1849 is complete. However one last question remains. There was another Hutchinson of interest. The Hutchinson`s I have researched, lost a son DIA in WW1 in Tanzania ( a German colony then ), he was my wife`s great uncle, Percy LYNN Hutchinson. Eleanor Rose Hutchinson was his grandmother. Sadly, my wife`s father, Maj Brian LYNN Hutchinson SAAF was also killed on a bombing mission over Hungary on 7/8 1944 in the next war.

But there was an Aubrey Neville Hutchinson, KIA on 15/7/1916 at Delville Wood on the Somme. Aubrey was born in 1897 in Chelsea. His father, Gerald Pembertion Hutchinson, was born in 1867 in Rugby. Aubrey Neville as a young man of 19, born & raised in the UK, died as a member of South African forces! It took 8 weeks by ship to SA from Plymouth then. German submarines were active. Why travel 6000 miles to enlist in a unit in a country you have never been to? Gazillions of British units to have enlisted in in 1915! Unless, in SA there was family ?? Brian Lynn`s middle brother was named Herbert NEVILLE Hutchinson. Coincidence? I plan to visit Aubrey Neville`s memorial at Thiepval coming June. I wonder if there was a connection prior to William?

Duncan.

But in your original post and later response you stated you didn't know where William was born - that was what your were looking for. Then you brought in that you were getting Eleanor's death certificate - but there is none registered in the year/place you state?

So.........if you have had a researcher trace William and his family in SA why did you ask the question in the first place??

Marriages Dec 1849 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Barns Robert John Ipswich 12 733
Land Mary Ann Ipswich 12 733


His brother in law, Robert John Barns - also his business partner, married a Mary Ann Land in 1849 in Bradfield, and both couples sailed on the same ship out to Natal. Both men were graziers by profession


(taken from below)

http://www.justanswer.com/genealogy/7ipe0-hi-i-attempting-find-part-uk.html

Chris :)

(have you found Robert 1841?)

That's a good researcher you've got

Found the info about William in the space of two days, which is remarkable.

However, as you had employed a researcher, one has to question your motives in posting on here.

Deaths Jun 1890 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Barns Robert John 63 Liverpool 8b 55


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: Robert John Barns
Probate Date: 13 Nov 1890
Death Date: 14 May 1890
Death Place: Essex, England
Registry: Principal Registry

(late of Ingleside, Southend, Essex. Cattle Owner died 14th May 1890 Liverpool, Lancaster was proved by Mary Ann Barns widow, William Cockerill Bardwell of Fernbank, Carlton Road, Romford, Essex, Railway Clerk. two of Executors for English Property) Personal Estate £667 15s 8d


1891
BARNS, Mary A Head Widow F 60 1831 Living On Her Own Means
Southwood, Suffolk (Southwold?)
BAKER, Mary J Servant Single F 17 1874 General Servant Domestic
Boxford, Berkshire
Piece: 1392
Folio: 48
Page: 23
Registration District: Rochford
Civil Parish: Mundon
Municipal Borough: St Marys Convent
Address: Ingleside, Milton Road, Mundon, Prittlewell, St Marys Convent
County: Essex

Chris :)

Duncan, how do you know that Aubrey Neville Hutchinson had never previously been to South Africa?