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Duncan

It might have been better received if you had said at the very beginning that you were employing a professional researcher.


As it is, I think many of us feel used by you.


We are all just members like yourself, and we use our ability, our knowledge and our PAID memberships in other sites to help members wanting help, like yourself.


You have taken advantage of our good natures.



You will only very rarely make contact with people researching your family by posting on the Community Boards ........................ what you do get are people trying to help out of the goodness of their heart.



To find out if anyone on GR has any connection with you ................ look under Search, at Search Trees.




Just one point about WW1 ...................... many units were decimated in France, and the survivors would be combined together or amalgamated into another unit, over and over and over again.

That MIGHT be one possibility.

Couple of comments.

1.) Flip. The researcher was working on this case simultaneously. I received confirmation the next day of William`s birthplace. That`s why.

2.) Astra. After a long search, it`s not unusual to bring in a professional. However, there is always the possibility that someone else has researched all or part of the same family already. That`s the point of joining the community board??

3.) 100 years later, what is absolute? However, 1901 and 1911 Census show Aubrey in the UK. Shipping/passenger records to South Africa, do not show Aubrey or his father Gerald, or mother Mabel Mary ( nee Moore ). As said, travel to South Africa in those days was a long & arduous journey. Ironically however if he did visit South Africa, that strengthens the case, because why else would a person venture so far on or before his 18 birthday ? ( he was 18 in 1915 - the year 2 SAI was formed ).

It`s not impossible that he joined 2 SAI in Bordon or in Egypt, in a Beau Geste type enrolment without consent of his parents. Very unlikely though. 2 SAI was fully formed before leaving Cape Town. Wherever he joined up, why a South African outfit ? Recall in 1915 the manpower shortage was in full swing. Kitchener`s poster was everywhere - " your country needs you ! " etc etc. Enlisting in a British unit would have been a snap. Why the only South African brigade in the entire BEF ? Obvious question - did he have a relative there? If so, just like in Brian Lynn`s case, was his brothers name Neville, in honor of a lost relative, namely Aubrey Neville? In other words, the two sets of Hutchinson`s were related? Maybe we will never know.

Reggie


I also thought that .............. so you were not the only one!!

Am I the only one who thought the following to be somewhat patronising?


"Some really good dialogue and excellent work."

We aren't students whose work has to be assessed....................

looks like we've wasted our time


and been taken advantage of



Not impressed one little tiny bit




another name to watch out for in future?

There are some flaws in this research - "So, the Hutchinson tree that migrated to Africa in 1849 is complete." .....really, what happened to answering the questions posed about Eleanor & her death? What happened to the 2 children (that we know of)? Where is the proof Eleanor returned to England, and did her children come too?

Would you really credit that birth in Brighton in 1816 as the right one without further proof - he could be anyone - like Duncan himself says, there were a lot of William Hutchinson's around at the time of the 1841 census!

Incidently, Mary Ann Barns (as posted by Chris) was still around in 1901 and died in 1910:

Mary Ann Barns << of Ingleside, Milton Road, Westcliffe
Probate Date: 1 Nov 1910
Death Date: 8 Oct 1910
Death Place: Essex, England
Registry: London, England

left the tidy sum of £5485 plus pence!

Duncan, none of us have found a likely death, so exactly which death certificate have you ordered for Eleanor please?

Duncan, how do you know that Aubrey Neville Hutchinson had never previously been to South Africa?

Deaths Jun 1890 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Barns Robert John 63 Liverpool 8b 55


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: Robert John Barns
Probate Date: 13 Nov 1890
Death Date: 14 May 1890
Death Place: Essex, England
Registry: Principal Registry

(late of Ingleside, Southend, Essex. Cattle Owner died 14th May 1890 Liverpool, Lancaster was proved by Mary Ann Barns widow, William Cockerill Bardwell of Fernbank, Carlton Road, Romford, Essex, Railway Clerk. two of Executors for English Property) Personal Estate £667 15s 8d


1891
BARNS, Mary A Head Widow F 60 1831 Living On Her Own Means
Southwood, Suffolk (Southwold?)
BAKER, Mary J Servant Single F 17 1874 General Servant Domestic
Boxford, Berkshire
Piece: 1392
Folio: 48
Page: 23
Registration District: Rochford
Civil Parish: Mundon
Municipal Borough: St Marys Convent
Address: Ingleside, Milton Road, Mundon, Prittlewell, St Marys Convent
County: Essex

Chris :)

That's a good researcher you've got

Found the info about William in the space of two days, which is remarkable.

However, as you had employed a researcher, one has to question your motives in posting on here.

Marriages Dec 1849 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Barns Robert John Ipswich 12 733
Land Mary Ann Ipswich 12 733


His brother in law, Robert John Barns - also his business partner, married a Mary Ann Land in 1849 in Bradfield, and both couples sailed on the same ship out to Natal. Both men were graziers by profession


(taken from below)

http://www.justanswer.com/genealogy/7ipe0-hi-i-attempting-find-part-uk.html

Chris :)

(have you found Robert 1841?)

So.........if you have had a researcher trace William and his family in SA why did you ask the question in the first place??

But in your original post and later response you stated you didn't know where William was born - that was what your were looking for. Then you brought in that you were getting Eleanor's death certificate - but there is none registered in the year/place you state?

Folks

Some really good dialogue and excellent work. I have had a researcher track down William Hutchinson. Born Brighton 1816. So, the Hutchinson tree that migrated to Africa in 1849 is complete. However one last question remains. There was another Hutchinson of interest. The Hutchinson`s I have researched, lost a son DIA in WW1 in Tanzania ( a German colony then ), he was my wife`s great uncle, Percy LYNN Hutchinson. Eleanor Rose Hutchinson was his grandmother. Sadly, my wife`s father, Maj Brian LYNN Hutchinson SAAF was also killed on a bombing mission over Hungary on 7/8 1944 in the next war.

But there was an Aubrey Neville Hutchinson, KIA on 15/7/1916 at Delville Wood on the Somme. Aubrey was born in 1897 in Chelsea. His father, Gerald Pembertion Hutchinson, was born in 1867 in Rugby. Aubrey Neville as a young man of 19, born & raised in the UK, died as a member of South African forces! It took 8 weeks by ship to SA from Plymouth then. German submarines were active. Why travel 6000 miles to enlist in a unit in a country you have never been to? Gazillions of British units to have enlisted in in 1915! Unless, in SA there was family ?? Brian Lynn`s middle brother was named Herbert NEVILLE Hutchinson. Coincidence? I plan to visit Aubrey Neville`s memorial at Thiepval coming June. I wonder if there was a connection prior to William?

Duncan.

There isn't a death in Christchurch district in 1915 for anyone name Eleanor R *******.

What leads you to think she returned to England? Do you have documents to support the theory?

Who registered William's death?

The marriage cert must include at least the names of witnesses.........what are they? They could provide clues

If no father is named for either party, the assumption must be that both were illegitimate

Can't find a death for Eleanor though

So I wonder which death Duncan has found??

I can't see Eleanor on incoming passenger lists either, but there is a possible re-marriage for William in Pietermaritzburg 11/1/1856 - to Louisa Bishop (age 30), they were both widowed, and his birth given as 1817.

No it's obviously not the right one. I have traced them right back too.

It can't be the right death, as Eleanor and Alice Roger-Barns are on all the census together back to 1881, and Eleanor was recorded as a widow on each, with Alice as her adopted daughter.

This looks like the family that the probate record is for.

National Archive Reference:
RG14PN5861 RG78PN267 RD95 SD2 ED30 SN240
Reg. District: Christchurch
Sub District: Bournemouth
Parish: Bournemouth
Enum. District: 30
Address: 25 King's Park Road Springbourne Bournemouth
County: Hampshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
BARNS, Alice Rogers Head Single F 49 1862 Retired Governess India Bombay Resident
BARNS, Eleanor Mother By Adopted Widow F (N K) Retired School Mistress Private Wales Anglesea
RICKETTS, Susan Servant Single F 60 1851 Cook Domestic Somerset Yeovil
DAVIS, Maggie Rose Servant Single F 19 1892 House - Parlourmaid Domestic Hants Bournemouth Springbourne