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Battenburg
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2 Feb 2013 07:14 |
I have a George Dawkins born c1855 Ebb Vale Mons In 1871 his family are living in Middlesbrough Parents William Dawkins and Ann Bogue
Cant find George in 1881 In 1891 census George Dawkins 1856 Mary A Hollings step daughter 1873 Walsall William Dawkins son 1881 Witton Park Living in South Bank Middlesbrough area
In 1891 George Dawkins marries Mary Ann Hollings
1901 George Dawkins 1856 Ebb Vale Mary A wife 1874 Walsall George son 1893 South Bank Elizabeth 1897South Bank James 1900 South Bank William 1881 Witton Park
1911 census George Dawkins Mary Ann George J Martha Ann Elizabeth Harriet James Mary Ann John Thomas Louis Edward Liza Mrs Martha Smith wifes mother
Now if Georges wife Mary Ann Hollings was his step daughter surely Martha Smith must have lived with or married George at some time
I can find a Mary Ann Hollins 1873 Walsall in 1881 with mother Martha
Any help gladly accepted
Thank you
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Battenburg
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2 Feb 2013 07:53 |
I have to leave now I will check back later
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Chris Ho :)
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2 Feb 2013 08:36 |
Grooms Last Name:Dawkins Grooms First Name:William (Miner) Grooms Fathers First Name:John Grooms Fathers Last Name:Dawkins Grooms Parish: Grooms Age:Full Brides Last Name:Bogue Brides First Name:Ann Brides Fathers First Name:George Brides Fathers Last Name:Bogue Brides Parish: Brides Age:Full County:Monmouthshire Place / Parish:Bedwellty Marriage Year:1851 Marriage Month:Jan Marriage Day:6 Record source:Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau
(saw above)
Chris :)
1861 DAWKINS, William Head Married M 31 1830 Baller Pembrokeshire DAWKINS, Ann Wife Married F 36 1825 Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire DAWKINS, Harriet Daughter Unmarried F 8 1853 Scholar Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire DAWKINS, George Son Unmarried M 6 1855 Scholar Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire DAWKINS, Charles Son Unmarried M 4 1857 Scholar Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire BOGIE, William Brother In Law Unmarried M 20 1841 Puddler Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire DAWKINS, James Brother Married M 26 1835 Puddler Pembrokeshire Piece: 3688 Folio: 21 Page: 36 Registration District: Stockton Civil Parish: Middlesbrough Municipal Borough: Middlesbrough Address: 5, Bridge Street East, Middlesbrough County: Durham
Marriages Jun 1891 (>99%) --------------------------------------------------------- Dawkins George Middlesbro' 9d 858 Hollings Mary Ann Middlesbro' 9d 858
1891 (reference) DAWKINGS, George Head Married M 35 1856 Steel Works Healer Ebbw Vale, Wales HOLLINGS, Mary A Stepdaughter Single F 18 1873 Housekeeper Worsall, Staffordshire DAWKINGS, Wm Son Single M 10 1881 Scholar Durham Wilton Park Piece: 4017 Folio: 21 Page: 36 Registration District: Middlesbrough Civil Parish: Normanby Municipal Borough: Address: 69, Oxford Street, Normanby, South Bank County: Yorkshire (North Riding)
(1891 Census taken 5th April)
1911 DAWKINS, George Head Married M 55 1856 Furnaceman Ebbe Cale South Wales DAWKINS, Mary Ann Wife Married20 years F 40 1871 House Keeper Walsall Staffs DAWKINS JR, George J Son Single M 19 1892 Slagger In Fish Mills South Bk Yorks DAWKINS, Martha Ann Daughter Single F 17 1894 Working At Home South Bank Yorks DAWKINS, Elizabeth Harriett Daughter Single F 13 1898 Going To School Grangetown Yorks DAWKINS JR, James Son Single M 10 1901 Going To School Grangetown Yorks DAWKINS, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 9 1902 Going To School Grangetown Yorks DAWKINS, John Thomas Son Single M 7 1904 Going To School Grangetown Yorks DAWKINS, Louise Edward Son Single M 6 1905 Going To School South Bank Yorks DAWKINS, Liza Daughter Single F 4 1907 South Bank Yorks SMITH, Martha Mother In Law Widow F 68 1843 Walsall Staffs RG number: RG14 Piece: 29209 Reference: RG14PN29209 RG78PN1694 RD535 SD1 ED6 SN138 Registration District: Middlesbrough Sub District: Ormesby Enumeration District: 6 Parish: Eston Address: 109 Laing St Grangetown Yorkshire County: Yorkshire (North riding)
Births Mar 1879 (>99%) (No, with parents 1881, Henry, Mary Jane) ------------------------------------------------------ Dawkins William Hartlepool 10a 130
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Astra
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2 Feb 2013 09:03 |
1881 for mary Ann
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG11 Piece: 2824 Folio: 65 Page: 19 Reg. District: Walsall Sub District: Walsall Parish: Walsall Foreign Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: 1, Dixons Court Green Lane, Walsall Foreign County: Staffordshire Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born HOLLINS, Thomas Head Married M 37 1844 Spur Filer Kington, Herefordshire HOLLINS, Martha Wife Married F 36 1845 Banks Woman (Coal Mine) Walsall, Staffordshire HOLLINS, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 8 1873 Banks Woman (Coal Mine) Daur Walsall, Staffordshire HOLLINS, Thomas Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar Walsall, Staffordshire HOLLINS, Joseph Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar Walsall, Staffordshire HOLLINS, Harry Son Single M 0 1881 Walsall, Staffordshire
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K
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2 Feb 2013 09:20 |
Looks like Martha's husband was still alive in 1891 with a new partner. If he was still alive it was unlikely that Martha could have married George
1891
Name: Thomas Hollings Age: 47 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah A Hollings Gender: Male Where born: Hereford and Worcester, Kington Civil parish: Walsall Foreign Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul and St Andrew Town: Walsall County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Walsall Sub-registration district: Walsall ED, institution, or vessel: 15 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2251 Folio: 41 Page Number: 11 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Hollings 47 Sarah A Hollings 38 Thomas Hollings 16 Joseph Hollings 14 Harry Hollings 10 Joseph Willock 5 Stepson Annie Newhill 20 sister Nellie Hollings 6/12 Mary A Newell 2 Fred Newell 2 Weeks
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Flip
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2 Feb 2013 09:21 |
Closest I can see for son William's birth - 1901 census says born Witton Park, which is in the Auckland reg district:
Births Jun 1881 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOCKENS William Auckland 10a 243
But only the birth certificate would confirm, and give mother's name.
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K
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2 Feb 2013 09:34 |
1901? Listed as widow
Name: Martha Smith Age: 56 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Plawsworth Ecclesiastical parish: Sacriston St Peter Town: Plawsworth County/Island: Durham Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Chester Le Street Sub-registration district: Chester le Street ED, institution, or vessel: 22 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 118 Piece: 4700 Folio: 146 Page Number: 18 Household Members: Name Age James Hutchinson 61 Margaret Hutchinson 61 Martha Smith 56
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Chris Ho :)
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2 Feb 2013 10:44 |
(no luck as yet 1881 George, did a google and found another person had same problem below, relating William)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=827enb0hmbhu4j4i577n42q875&action=printpage;topic=509089.0
http://joannasheenscraftforum2966.yuku.com/topic/74461
Chris :)
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Flip
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2 Feb 2013 11:49 |
No, I can't see George either, wonder if he was living with Elizabeth as she must have been pregnant by then, and they didn't put him down as they weren't married?
The 1911 census is quite interesting, although it's crossed off it states he had been married 30 years 15 children, 6 have died. States she had been married 20 years, 14 children, 6 died. Also states Martha had been married 48 years had 11 children, 7 died, which would give a marriage date of around 1863.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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2 Feb 2013 12:17 |
How does Martha go from being Hollins to Smith though? And it seems inconceivable that if Mary Ann WAS his step-daughter in the 1891 census (just before they married) that he would remain on good terms with her mother :-)
I can't see any marriages that would explain Martha going from Hollins to Smith
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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2 Feb 2013 12:23 |
1881 marriage
Marriages Jun 1881 (>99%) BULMER Thomas Auckland 10a 279 Dawkins George Auckland 10a 279 HANNOWAY Caroline Elizabeth Auckland 10a 279 MARSH Elizabeth Auckland 10a 279
So Flip taking it that Elizabeth Marsh is the other half
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Flip
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2 Feb 2013 12:33 |
No Jude, I think it's Caroline/Catherine Elizabeth Hannaway - she died as Dawkins in 1885 Middlesbrough. Was a widow on 1881 census as Eliabeth Hannaway.
Georges probate record (if a tree on ancestry is correct):
George Dawkins Probate Date: 7 Feb 1948 Death Date: 13 Feb 1947 Death Place: Glamorgan, Wales Registry: London, England Probate to George Dawkins, fitter & Lewis Dawkins motor mechanic.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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2 Feb 2013 12:56 |
So in 1881 when she must have been very pregnant with William, she is living with her four children named Hannaway....so presumably she died and those four children had to go back to her family.
Can only think that George was down a mine somewhere at the time of the census :-)
Still can't get from Martha Hollins to Martha Smith and just don't see how Mary Ann could ever have been his step-daughter!
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Flip
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2 Feb 2013 13:05 |
No I think "step-daughter" was a bit of a lie, and I don't think Martha could have married as Thomas was still alive until 1899, there is a possible death for him in Walsall. Can't see a Thomas/Martha marriage either.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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2 Feb 2013 14:44 |
marriage?????
Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%) CONEY Martha King's N 6c 583 HILL Sarah Ann King's N. 6c 583 HOLLINS Thomas Guest King's N. 6c 583 LLOYD James King's N. 6c 583
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Battenburg
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2 Feb 2013 20:10 |
Thank you everyone If George lied about Mary Ann being his step daughter just to seem respectable you would think he would have called her housekeeper
I guess I will need to buy their marriage cert to see what fathers name she gives
Yes I noticed on the 1911 census George said he was married 30 years then crossed it out. Sounds like he might have married before but who too. Such a pity he cant be found in 1881
Thanks for trying
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Flip
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2 Feb 2013 21:20 |
I think Mary Ann is right, and don't think the marriage certificate will get you much further other than confirm the research - there's a couple of trees on Ancestry that have their exact date of marriage which I would assume was from the marriage cert.
For his first wife, William's birth certificate should prove it (probable birth already posted at 09:21 today - the 1879 birth is not right & traced through to another family), but it would look like it was Catherine/Charlotte Elizabeth Hannaway (the widow) who he married in Q2/1881 and who died as Dawkins in Middlesbrough in 1885. Think this was her first marriage:
Marriages Dec 1871 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hannaway Patrick Auckland 10a 415 <<<<< JONES Elizabeth Auckland 10a 415 <<<<< Murtagh William Auckland 10a 415 Stephens Jane Auckland 10a 415
According to a query on rootsweb, they had 4 children before he died - 2 were traced to other relatives/friends following her death. His death can be found on freebmd.
Incidently, if you look at the census for 1891 Mary Ann was referred to as "housekeeper" in the occupation bit with the words "domestic" being added.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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3 Feb 2013 07:38 |
These are the two Hannaway children found after her death..
Name: Catherine Mc Cam Age: 58 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Bishop Auckland, Durham, England Civil parish: Eston Ecclesiastical parish: Eston Town: Eston Junction County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Middlesbrough Sub-registration district: Ormesby ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4015 Folio: 101 Page Number: 22 Household Members: Name Age Catherine Mc Cam 58 Mary A Mc Cam 17 Patrick Hannaway 12 Adopted Son Wm McClusky 28 John Gumm 35 John O Hanlan 28 Jas Raffety 28 Francis McCarry 27
Name: John Hannaway Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877 Relation: Nephew Gender: Male Where born: Escombe, Durham, England Civil parish: Eston Ecclesiastical parish: Eston Town: Grangetown County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address: Registration district: Middlesbrough Sub-registration district: Ormesby ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4016 Folio: 13A Page Number: 25 Name Age Bridget Hannaway 50 John Hannaway 27 Patrick Hannaway 22 Mary Hannaway 18 Rose Hannaway 16 Bridget Hannaway 15 John Hannaway 14
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