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help me solve a mystery

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 2 Feb 2013 07:14

I have a George Dawkins born c1855 Ebb Vale Mons
In 1871 his family are living in Middlesbrough
Parents William Dawkins and Ann Bogue

Cant find George in 1881
In 1891 census
George Dawkins 1856
Mary A Hollings step daughter 1873 Walsall
William Dawkins son 1881 Witton Park
Living in South Bank Middlesbrough area

In 1891 George Dawkins marries Mary Ann Hollings

1901
George Dawkins 1856 Ebb Vale
Mary A wife 1874 Walsall
George son 1893 South Bank
Elizabeth 1897South Bank
James 1900 South Bank
William 1881 Witton Park


1911 census
George Dawkins
Mary Ann
George J
Martha Ann
Elizabeth Harriet
James
Mary Ann
John Thomas
Louis Edward
Liza
Mrs Martha Smith wifes mother

Now if Georges wife Mary Ann Hollings was his step daughter surely Martha Smith must have lived with or married George at some time

I can find a Mary Ann Hollins 1873 Walsall in 1881 with mother Martha

Any help gladly accepted

Thank you

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 2 Feb 2013 07:53

I have to leave now I will check back later

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 2 Feb 2013 08:36

Grooms Last Name:Dawkins
Grooms First Name:William (Miner)
Grooms Fathers First Name:John
Grooms Fathers Last Name:Dawkins
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age:Full
Brides Last Name:Bogue
Brides First Name:Ann
Brides Fathers First Name:George
Brides Fathers Last Name:Bogue
Brides Parish:
Brides Age:Full
County:Monmouthshire
Place / Parish:Bedwellty
Marriage Year:1851
Marriage Month:Jan
Marriage Day:6
Record source:Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau

(saw above)

Chris :)

1861
DAWKINS, William Head Married M 31 1830 Baller
Pembrokeshire
DAWKINS, Ann Wife Married F 36 1825
Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire
DAWKINS, Harriet Daughter Unmarried F 8 1853 Scholar
Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire
DAWKINS, George Son Unmarried M 6 1855 Scholar
Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire
DAWKINS, Charles Son Unmarried M 4 1857 Scholar
Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire
BOGIE, William Brother In Law Unmarried M 20 1841 Puddler
Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire
DAWKINS, James Brother Married M 26 1835 Puddler
Pembrokeshire
Piece: 3688
Folio: 21
Page: 36
Registration District: Stockton
Civil Parish: Middlesbrough
Municipal Borough: Middlesbrough
Address: 5, Bridge Street East, Middlesbrough
County: Durham


Marriages Jun 1891 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Dawkins George Middlesbro' 9d 858
Hollings Mary Ann Middlesbro' 9d 858


1891 (reference)
DAWKINGS, George Head Married M 35 1856 Steel Works Healer
Ebbw Vale, Wales
HOLLINGS, Mary A Stepdaughter Single F 18 1873 Housekeeper
Worsall, Staffordshire
DAWKINGS, Wm Son Single M 10 1881 Scholar
Durham Wilton Park
Piece: 4017
Folio: 21
Page: 36
Registration District: Middlesbrough
Civil Parish: Normanby
Municipal Borough:
Address: 69, Oxford Street, Normanby, South Bank
County: Yorkshire (North Riding)

(1891 Census taken 5th April)

1911
DAWKINS, George Head Married M 55 1856 Furnaceman Ebbe Cale South Wales
DAWKINS, Mary Ann Wife Married20 years F 40 1871 House Keeper Walsall Staffs
DAWKINS JR, George J Son Single M 19 1892 Slagger In Fish Mills South Bk Yorks
DAWKINS, Martha Ann Daughter Single F 17 1894 Working At Home South Bank Yorks
DAWKINS, Elizabeth Harriett Daughter Single F 13 1898 Going To School Grangetown Yorks
DAWKINS JR, James Son Single M 10 1901 Going To School Grangetown Yorks
DAWKINS, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 9 1902 Going To School Grangetown Yorks
DAWKINS, John Thomas Son Single M 7 1904 Going To School Grangetown Yorks
DAWKINS, Louise Edward Son Single M 6 1905 Going To School South Bank Yorks
DAWKINS, Liza Daughter Single F 4 1907 South Bank Yorks
SMITH, Martha Mother In Law Widow F 68 1843 Walsall Staffs
RG number: RG14
Piece: 29209
Reference: RG14PN29209 RG78PN1694 RD535 SD1 ED6 SN138
Registration District: Middlesbrough
Sub District: Ormesby
Enumeration District: 6
Parish: Eston
Address: 109 Laing St Grangetown Yorkshire
County: Yorkshire (North riding)


Births Mar 1879 (>99%) (No, with parents 1881, Henry, Mary Jane)
------------------------------------------------------
Dawkins William Hartlepool 10a 130

Astra

Astra Report 2 Feb 2013 09:03

1881 for mary Ann

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 2824
Folio: 65
Page: 19
Reg. District: Walsall
Sub District: Walsall
Parish: Walsall Foreign
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 1, Dixons Court Green Lane, Walsall Foreign
County: Staffordshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
HOLLINS, Thomas Head Married M 37 1844 Spur Filer
Kington, Herefordshire
HOLLINS, Martha Wife Married F 36 1845 Banks Woman (Coal Mine)
Walsall, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 8 1873 Banks Woman (Coal Mine) Daur
Walsall, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Thomas Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar
Walsall, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Joseph Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar
Walsall, Staffordshire
HOLLINS, Harry Son Single M 0 1881
Walsall, Staffordshire

K

K Report 2 Feb 2013 09:20

Looks like Martha's husband was still alive in 1891 with a new partner. If he was still alive it was unlikely that Martha could have married George

1891

Name: Thomas Hollings
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah A Hollings
Gender: Male
Where born: Hereford and Worcester, Kington

Civil parish: Walsall Foreign
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul and St Andrew
Town: Walsall
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Walsall
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2251
Folio: 41
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Hollings 47
Sarah A Hollings 38
Thomas Hollings 16
Joseph Hollings 14
Harry Hollings 10
Joseph Willock 5 Stepson
Annie Newhill 20 sister
Nellie Hollings 6/12
Mary A Newell 2
Fred Newell 2 Weeks

Flip

Flip Report 2 Feb 2013 09:21

Closest I can see for son William's birth - 1901 census says born Witton Park, which is in the Auckland reg district:

Births Jun 1881 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOCKENS William Auckland 10a 243

But only the birth certificate would confirm, and give mother's name.

K

K Report 2 Feb 2013 09:34

1901? Listed as widow

Name: Martha Smith
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Plawsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Sacriston St Peter
Town: Plawsworth
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Chester Le Street
Sub-registration district: Chester le Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 118
Piece: 4700
Folio: 146
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
James Hutchinson 61
Margaret Hutchinson 61
Martha Smith 56



Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 2 Feb 2013 10:44

(no luck as yet 1881 George, did a google and found another person had same problem below, relating William)


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=827enb0hmbhu4j4i577n42q875&action=printpage;topic=509089.0

http://joannasheenscraftforum2966.yuku.com/topic/74461

Chris :)

Flip

Flip Report 2 Feb 2013 11:49

No, I can't see George either, wonder if he was living with Elizabeth as she must have been pregnant by then, and they didn't put him down as they weren't married?

The 1911 census is quite interesting, although it's crossed off it states he had been married 30 years 15 children, 6 have died. States she had been married 20 years, 14 children, 6 died. Also states Martha had been married 48 years had 11 children, 7 died, which would give a marriage date of around 1863.

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 2 Feb 2013 12:17

How does Martha go from being Hollins to Smith though? And it seems inconceivable that if Mary Ann WAS his step-daughter in the 1891 census (just before they married) that he would remain on good terms with her mother :-)

I can't see any marriages that would explain Martha going from Hollins to Smith

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 2 Feb 2013 12:23

1881 marriage

Marriages Jun 1881 (>99%)
BULMER Thomas Auckland 10a 279
Dawkins George Auckland 10a 279
HANNOWAY Caroline Elizabeth Auckland 10a 279
MARSH Elizabeth Auckland 10a 279

So Flip taking it that Elizabeth Marsh is the other half

Flip

Flip Report 2 Feb 2013 12:33

No Jude, I think it's Caroline/Catherine Elizabeth Hannaway - she died as Dawkins in 1885 Middlesbrough. Was a widow on 1881 census as Eliabeth Hannaway.

Georges probate record (if a tree on ancestry is correct):

George Dawkins
Probate Date: 7 Feb 1948
Death Date: 13 Feb 1947
Death Place: Glamorgan, Wales
Registry: London, England
Probate to George Dawkins, fitter & Lewis Dawkins motor mechanic.

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 2 Feb 2013 12:56

So in 1881 when she must have been very pregnant with William, she is living with her four children named Hannaway....so presumably she died and those four children had to go back to her family.

Can only think that George was down a mine somewhere at the time of the census :-)

Still can't get from Martha Hollins to Martha Smith and just don't see how Mary Ann could ever have been his step-daughter!

Flip

Flip Report 2 Feb 2013 13:05

No I think "step-daughter" was a bit of a lie, and I don't think Martha could have married as Thomas was still alive until 1899, there is a possible death for him in Walsall. Can't see a Thomas/Martha marriage either.

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 2 Feb 2013 14:44

marriage?????

Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%)
CONEY Martha King's N 6c 583
HILL Sarah Ann King's N. 6c 583
HOLLINS Thomas Guest King's N. 6c 583
LLOYD James King's N. 6c 583

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 2 Feb 2013 20:10

Thank you everyone
If George lied about Mary Ann being his step daughter just to seem respectable you would think he would have called her housekeeper

I guess I will need to buy their marriage cert to see what fathers name she gives

Yes I noticed on the 1911 census George said he was married 30 years then crossed it out. Sounds like he might have married before but who too.
Such a pity he cant be found in 1881


Thanks for trying

Flip

Flip Report 2 Feb 2013 21:20

I think Mary Ann is right, and don't think the marriage certificate will get you much further other than confirm the research - there's a couple of trees on Ancestry that have their exact date of marriage which I would assume was from the marriage cert.

For his first wife, William's birth certificate should prove it (probable birth already posted at 09:21 today - the 1879 birth is not right & traced through to another family), but it would look like it was Catherine/Charlotte Elizabeth Hannaway (the widow) who he married in Q2/1881 and who died as Dawkins in Middlesbrough in 1885. Think this was her first marriage:

Marriages Dec 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hannaway Patrick Auckland 10a 415 <<<<<
JONES Elizabeth Auckland 10a 415 <<<<<
Murtagh William Auckland 10a 415
Stephens Jane Auckland 10a 415

According to a query on rootsweb, they had 4 children before he died - 2 were traced to other relatives/friends following her death. His death can be found on freebmd.

Incidently, if you look at the census for 1891 Mary Ann was referred to as "housekeeper" in the occupation bit with the words "domestic" being added.

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 3 Feb 2013 07:38

These are the two Hannaway children found after her death..

Name: Catherine Mc Cam
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bishop Auckland, Durham, England
Civil parish: Eston
Ecclesiastical parish: Eston
Town: Eston Junction
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Middlesbrough
Sub-registration district: Ormesby
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4015
Folio: 101
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Mc Cam 58
Mary A Mc Cam 17
Patrick Hannaway 12 Adopted Son
Wm McClusky 28
John Gumm 35
John O Hanlan 28
Jas Raffety 28
Francis McCarry 27

Name: John Hannaway
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Escombe, Durham, England
Civil parish: Eston
Ecclesiastical parish: Eston
Town: Grangetown
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration district: Middlesbrough
Sub-registration district: Ormesby
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4016
Folio: 13A
Page Number: 25
Name Age
Bridget Hannaway 50
John Hannaway 27
Patrick Hannaway 22
Mary Hannaway 18
Rose Hannaway 16
Bridget Hannaway 15
John Hannaway 14