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have sent pm to you :-)

Omg I'm talking to my mother now we think this is Alice thank you very much and what's ancestry I'm sorry but I'm new to this can you help me please Alice was brought up as my mothers aunt x <3

There is this tree on Ancestry which is rather intriguing: in fact there are a couple of trees with Photos too. Do you have Ancestry?

Given to the gypsies
c. 1896 , Northants

If this is indeed our Alice Emily Rowland, the story passed down through our family is that she was brought up by gypsies called Smith.

The birth dates tally, and there were indeed alot of gypsy families travelling in Northants (northants-familytree.net/travellers).

Again, if this is the right Alice then her mother died when she was about 8, and she seems to have been the youngest of a long line of children borne legitimately and illegitimately to Alice Packer and Richard Rowland. It is conceiveable that on the death of her mother, Richard was no longer able to keep her - the next youngest children in ther early teens and boys would have been able to work - and perhaps would give her to a gypsy family rather than a workhouse?



1891 England Census about Alice Rowland
Name: Alice Rowland
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Hichard Rowland
Mother's Name: Alice Rowland
Gender: Female
Where born: Northampton, Northamptonshire, England

Civil parish: St Sepulchre
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: Northampton
Sub-registration district: St Giles
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1197
Folio: 19
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
Hichard Rowland 39
Alice Rowland 42
Richard Rowland 14
Jane Rowland 8
Samuel Rowland 4
>>>>>>>>>Alice Rowland 2




Marriages Mar 1911
Rowland Alice Nottingham 7b 445
Wesseldine John Nottingham 7b 445


Daughter from this marriage
born 1911 Rhoda Wesseldine



England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006 about Alice E Wesseldine
Name: Alice E Wesseldine
Birth Date: abt 1888
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1965
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 416

Thanks everybody yous are all right Samuel and Rhoda are my great grandparents I've looked at all the census and it is them but I've hearted my mother talk about all of her other aunts and uncles all my life but never Alice until I found one of my mothers cousins on her Dorothy Jordan's daughter adolpus smith granddaughter mentioned Alice ? She's seems a lot orders than he other children all my mam remembers was she was adopted ? Unusual for Gypsys and nobody seems to know who she married or anything about her now or where she came from ? And moody blue maybe he was rhodas I had that thought aswell ? And I suppose smith wasent her real surname ? I check up on Alice Lloyd ? Thanks everybody for your help I'm new on her so I migh need a lot lol ;-)

ooh, I wonder.........................


1911 England Census about Samuel Smith
Name: Samuel Smith
Age in 1911: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation to Head: Prisoner
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ranton, Staffordshire
Civil parish: Stafford
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address: His Majestys Prison, Stafford
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Collier
Registration district: Stafford
Registration District Number: 357
Sub-registration district: Stafford
ED, institution, or vessel: 31-33
Piece: 16364

possible death for Adolphus...............cannot find birth to confirm parents ie mothers maiden name.



England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006 about Adolph Smith
Name: Adolph Smith
Birth Date: 1892
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1975
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 34
Page: 0347


according to a tree on Ancestry this is his marriage
Marriages Dec 1935
Jordan Dorothy V Smith Walsall 6b 1687
Smith Adolphus Jordan Walsall 6b 1687



maybe a long winded way to go but maybe will eventually find Alice ?

This may be Adolphus and Sidney from the 1901 census



1911 England Census about Adolphus Smith
Name: Adolphus Smith
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Nephew
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Leicester
Civil parish: Eccleshall
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address: In A Caravan At The Buck Field, Stone Road, Eccleshall
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Assistant showman Cocoa Nut stall
Registration district: Stone
Registration District Number: 358
Sub-registration district: Eccleshall
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 245
Piece: 16387
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Smith 40
Mary Smith 38
Georgina Smith 13
Archer Smith 4
Albert Smith 3
Richard Smith 2/12
Adolphus Smith 17 Nephew...asst showman coconut stand
Sidney Smith 15 Nephew...asst showman coconut stand

Is this Samuels marriage?

Marriages Dec 1887
Smith Samuel Dudley 6c 195
LLOYD Rhoda Dudley 6c 195


Could Alice be Rhodas child before they wed

Births Dec 1886
Lloyd Alice Dudley 6c 91
Lloyd Alice Dudley 6c 97

They seem to be a travelling family.
Samuel's occupation is a Caravaner.
Most others on the census are also Caravaners or Hawkers.

Odd that Alice Smith age 15 is a daughter but Sarah age 11 is a cousin?
I am having difficulty locating them on any census other than 1901

1901 England Census about Alice Smith
Name: Alice Smith
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Samuel Smith
Mother's Name: Rhoda Smith
Gender: Female
Where born: Northamptonshire, England

Civil parish: Leicester formerly St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: North West Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 201
Piece: 2987
Folio: 113
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Smith 35
Rhoda Smith 34
Adophus Smith 8
Sidney Smith 4
Alice Smith 15
Sarah Smith 11

Hello I'm looking for my mothers great aunt Alice smith she was adopted her birth would be about is about 1886 I don't know what her previous name was my great grandparents were Samuel and Rhoda smith places they were from.varied Leicester Staffordshire Northampton would really like to hear some info thanks x