Find Ancestors

for the last 2/3 years i have constantly hit a brick wall where my family ancestors are and were... MY dad( now deceased ) always referred to his family as a" private people" they didnt seem to share any information with anyone even my dad didnt know much about his parents or there siblings as such. My mum and i have search bmd, cemeteries picked the brains of what older relatives are left and still drew a blank, so if anyone can help in any way shape or form it would be much appreciated, thankyou.x We still in contacted with my uncle Derek and most of this info came from him, he was unable to track it back further as like my dad said " children were never told"
the facts that i know through trawling bmd , churches , cemeteries and family doccuments

my father......Leslie Jackson 1942 ....... ............brother of Derek 1933
Doreen 1936c(moved to Oz in 60;s)
Joan 1939c
they were born in Ardwick but then moved to Wythenshaw.

their parents : Wilfred Jackson B1911c.---D 1968c
Beatrice Alexandrea Green B.1911 -- D1985
Beaty & wilf married 2 July 1932 at the Rectory , Ardwick
Irene and Arthur were witness to this wedding

the only relatives on WILFRED'S side my dad and Derek ever mentioned were Arthur Jackson , Irene Jackson and a Cyril poped up every now n then....

Derek n dad always said that Irene was in the "nut house" (she had problems every month) Wilfred used to visit her weekly, the children and Beaty NEVER went....
I tracked "the nut house" down to 2 places......Wythenshawe Hospital and Cheadle Royal, but medical records are private and confidential so no avail there.
Wilfred;s parents : James A Jackson B.1873c .D 1952c
Rachel H Noble B 1870c D1935c ( Nobel)
listed on Birth index were other children associated with these 2 names
James and Rachel ..were :
James A Jackson 1895c
Doris V Jackson 1900c
George N Jackson 1903c
Irene Jackson 1907
Cyril Jackson 1910
Wilfred Jackson 1912
Arthur Jackson 1913
the Wilfred , Arthur and Irene and parents all match other documentation which we have but nothing for the other siblings cannot find anything more on them.

Beatrice Jackson nee Green ........
.Daughter of William Green. B 1871c in Worcester
Ada Tolly B.1872c ( Worcester) ?
SISTER of : Louisa B.1892c
William B 1899c
Sydney B.1901c
Edith B.1913

Nana Beaty said when she was a child they used to go to Worcester to see family every summer. Dad & Derek said Beatys family / parents were from Worcester but they only knew there names they never seen them.
the only 2 people Derek had recollection of on Beatys side were:
William Green he married someone and had a child Harold 1935c .... Derek knew this as he had seen Harold a few time when they were younger ( only 2/3years age difference)
Edith Green she married Richard Palmer and had a child Jean
my dad didn't know William but did know Edith very well, Edith was always at Beaty's , My dad being the youngest was still at home, even when he married my mum they lived with Beaty for 2/3 years before he moved to where my mum still lives
i do remember Edith, but only vaguely ..... Edith and Richard were both blind they did come to see my mum and dad once that i remember of with there 2 big Labrador guide dogs
Edith died when i was about 6 /7 ( 1980)

Derek has always said the "Girls" that being his sisters Doreen and Joan might be able to shed better light on this as they were closer to their mum as Derek was away in the army from the age of 16. Unfortunately Doreen moved to Australia in the 60's and he has had no contact with her or her children.
Doreen married and had the children in England but then emigrated so am at a loss there aswell all I know is:
Doreen married Brian Booth 4 children: Ian
Elaine
Julie
Hazel

Just today i did receive some positive news about my dad's sister Joan, i am awaiting on the tree owner , as this person i am looking for is alive and tree owner is awaiting permission to contact..... fingers crossed its a good result after years of brick walls ............
Thank you to any one who can help with any of this information

Michelle, you've got more info than many people who's families weren't private people!

Could you clarify what it is you particularly want help with.

1891 England Census
about William Green
Name: William Green
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ada Green
Gender: Male
Where born: Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: St Martin
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:DRAYMAN

Registration district: Worcester
Sub-registration district: North Worcester
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2328
Folio: 123
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
William Green 20
Ada Green 20

1901 England Census
about William Green
Name: William Green
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ada Green
Gender: Male
Where born: Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Nottingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:RAILWAY GUARD

Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Nottingham South East
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 117
Piece: 3172
Folio: 117
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
William Green 30
Ada Green 29
Louisa Green 9
William Green 2
Sydney Green 6 Months

Are you trying to find relations of your father who are still alive, or trying to go backwards?

Presumably this is the correct marriage for James and Rachel - have you got the certificate?
Marriages Dec 1895
Jackson James Arthur Chorlton 8c 1097
Noble Rachel Helena Chorlton 8c 1097

The Jackson family?

1911 England Census about James Arthur Jackson
Name: James Arthur Jackson
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: South Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 11 Richmond Street Ardwick Manchester
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Labourer (Market Porter)
Registration district: Chorlton
Registration District Number: 464
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 23709
Household Members:
Name Age
James Arthur Jackson 38
Rachel Helena Jackson 42 Birth Place: Almondbury, Yorkshire
James Leonard Jackson 16 Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire
Dores Victoria Jackson 11 Birth Place: Stoke On Trent, Staffordshire
George Norman Jackson 8 Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire
Arthur Cyril Jackson 6 Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire
Irine May Jackson 2 Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire

Married for 17yrs.
Children 6, 5 living and 1 died

.....................
1901 England Census about James A Jackson
Name: James A Jackson
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rochel H Jackson
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chad
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation: Theatre Carpenter

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Didsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 226
Piece: 3671
Folio: 23
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
James A Jackson 27
Rochel H Jackson 31 born: Huddersfield, Yorkshire,
James L Jackson 6 born: Manchester, Lancashire,
Dorn V Jackson 10 Months born: Stoke, Staffordshire

I can't seem to find William Green and Ada on the 1911.

This could be Rachel's birth, and in a later census, but you need her marriage certificate for confirmation:
Births Dec 1869
Noble Helena Huddersfield 9a 290
1881 England Census
Rachel E. Noble Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charl.E. Noble
Mother's Name: Ann Noble
Gender: Female Where born: Almondbey, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Hulme County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Street Address: 15 Raglan St
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Chorlton Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 60 Piece: 3935 Folio: 34 Page Number: 15
Charl.E. Noble 33
Ann Noble 31
Rachel E. Noble 11
Anne G. Noble 7
Edith E. Noble 5
Geo.A. Noble 3
John L. Noble
Emma Armitage 52
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3935; Folio: 34; Page: 15; GSU roll: 1341940.

Added:
One child:
Births Sep 1900
Jackson Doris Victoria Stoke T. 6b 231

William and Ada's marriage:-

Marriages Dec 1890 (>99%)
Evans Enoch Worcester 6c 507
xxxx Green William Worcester 6c 507
xxxx Tolley Ada Worcester 6c 507
Webb Sarah Ann Worcester 6c 507

.............to go any further back, with any certainty, for Ada, you will need to buy the certificate to see who her father was and find out his occupation. It will also give you her address at the time of marriage which may help confirm an 1881 census find.

Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
Green Beatrice A Tolley Chorlton 8c 1447
The district Chorlton is in the county of Lancashire

..............so I would have thought that the family should be in Chorlton in 1911 census.

Here they are:-

1911 England Census about William Green
Name: William Green
Age in 1911: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Worcester, England
Civil parish: South Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 138 Rylance Street Ardwick Manchester
Marital Status: Married 20 yrs.
Occupation: Railway Shunter
Registration district: Chorlton
Registration District Number: 464
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Piece: 23721
Household Members:
Name Age
William Green 41
Ada Mary Green 39 Birth Place: Worcester, England
William George Green 12 Birth Place: Gloucester
Sidney Archibald Green 10 Birth Place: Nottinghamshire
Edith Green 7 (Not noted as being Blind, so she must have become blind in later years)

Children:- 6 (4 living and 2 died)

As 1911 shows Ada with the middle name Mary, then this could be her in 1881?

1881 England Census about Ada Mary Tolley
Name: Ada Mary Tolley
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George Tolley
Mother's Name: Mary Tolley
Gender: Female
Where born: Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Worcester St Peter
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Sidbury Court 7

Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Worcester
Sub-registration district: South Worcester
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2918
Folio: 29
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
George Tolley 28 born: Worcestershire (occupation:- Groom)
Mary Tolley 26 born: Harvington, Worcestershire (occuption:- could be Governess)
Ada Mary Tolley 9
Geo Wm. Tolley 4
Celina Florence Tolley 1

.........but as I said earlier you will need the marriage cert. to confirm.

There's also this birth which may be relevant?

Births Sep 1917 (>99%)
Green Horace Tolley Chorlton 8c 1122

.....................another possible brother for Beatrice?

Going back to Jackson family, couldn't find anything either for the family apart from this which is a possible death for Arthur Cyril:-

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006 about Arthur Cyril Jackson
Name: Arthur Cyril Jackson
Birth Date: 6 Jul 1906
Date of Registration: Dec 1991
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Tameside
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 39
Page: 1765

Thank you to everyone that's posted reply's,

i suppose to find living relatives would be a blessing as no family members i have left know much about there past's either, only what is mentioned above.

And if any member of the family fell out them seem to fall out for life........no mention of them again etc.

then again i love history and just want to know as much about my family as possible.
My mums side of the family is huge going back 100's of years and 98% proven fact but then again on my mums side we have about 15 family members tracking stuff down and even most of the old ones are still alive...

On my dads side theirs just me and my mum , as with my dads family being private i know i have cousins i know there names but we never talk, write etc i wouldn't even know where to find half of them now there grown up, married etc
and will be dead before them census are available .

I too came to a blank where Ada Tolly and William Green disappeared to in 1911 cencus
i have all 1891 , 1901 , 1911 census's but as my grandparents were born the year after the 1911 census i cannot bee 100% certain if they do attain to the family i have built !
From old documents i have street addresses that match 100% but people did move in between .
my mum might have the marriage certificate of Rachel Nobel and James Jackson,
but all i have currently are the grave receipts and the burial dates for both Rachel and James...

Rachel married James oct,nov,dec quater 1895
Rachel died at her home 9 Old Elm Street, Ardwick Manchester in 1935
Her Parents Charles Noble and Ann Armitage
Burial Date 07/04/1935 aged 65
Buried at Southern Cemetery

Derek said his father Wilfred was born at 9 Old Elm Street

James A Jackson No mother of father found as of yet!
Married Rachel Noble oct,nov,dec quater 1895
Died at 22 Addison Street, Cholton -on-Medlock, in 1952
Burial Date 22/03/1952 aged 79
Buried at Southern Cemetery.


I have tracked a couple of Ada Green's ( Tolly) down in burial records and in the next few weeks when im off work i shall be in and around the Cemetery's and church records again , 4 are buried in Southern Cemetery but not holding my hopes up on that 1 , since they came from Worcester........but you never know they might have moved to find work etc

I never met my Grandfather Wilfred he died before i was born but my dad always said he was a cantankerous old git and fell out with most of his family..... and if he said shut up ..... you shut up and never asked again.......

Thank you all again for your most valuable input xxxxxxx

Catherine thank you so much for what you have found i shall be inquiring into purchasing these certificates ........ positive thoughts that these brick walls will finally start to crumble down .....

Thank you again xxx

You have put:
'but as my grandparents were born the year after the 1911 census i cannot bee 100% certain if they do attain to the family i have built ! '
If you have the birth certificates with the correct Mother's maiden names, why do you think they may be the wrong family?
As MarieCeleste said, you have far more information than many people, who cannot even get back past the 1940's....

To patchem the reason stated " but grandparents born after 1911 census etc " on another part of my tree we had a family member listed as a son whom was also listed on a census as the son but as it turned out in later years he was not actually the son he was the grandson , but because of whatever happened back in them times.... born out of wed-lock , affairs etc the "son" was brought up by his grandmother and what he thought was his sister is actually his mother.

In relation to the Jackson's i'm 100% of Beatrice and Wilfred as my dads parents

But some names on both sides Green / Jackson appeared and no living family member has any recollection of them, take for instance "Dorn V Jackson 10 Months who is she ?? where she come from ?? even my uncle Derek has no idea who she is , he said his dad only had 1 sister Irine (Irene) the 1 in the "nut house" but obviously there is a large age gap between them 11/12 years . Derek doesn't even know of the James Leonard.....Wilfreds ? other brother but yet again very large age difference he was 16 in 1911 Wilfred wasn't born then..

when my mum started this tree ( on paper not pc) many years ago she said Beaty always said : " there are many broken branches in this family tree and secrets are secrets never to be told "
So even if i have to wait another 10 years for census conformation of Wilfred being born at Old Elm Street and whom ever be left in that house then i will keep digging through what information i have and people have graciously posted on here for me.

Another item i'm currently looking in to is that when Rachel died in 1935 at her home Old Elm Street Ardwick , 17yrs later James( her husband) died in Addison Street Cholton- on - medlock....(1952.)..... did he move there on his own ? move in with a family member or even re-marry some one else????
Derek knows nothing of this and he would have been in his early 20's he always thought his grandad died first at Old Elm Street ,
Derek said he was only 2ish when his granny died so dont remember that much about her and a grandad was never around while growing up ......
If Dors V is Wilfred's sister it could be possible that James( their dad) moved in with her in cholton -on-medlock but this is something that will take alittle time to uncover...... I just need to find Dad and Derek's sister's as they seemed to be closer to their parents than the 2 lads
Thank you again every one that has helped so far .........xxxx

Have you got the death certificate of James from 1952 - the informant could be a relative?
Similarly, who is the informant on Rachel's certificate?
If Derek thought that James died first, then this just shows that people's memory is not accurate and that assumptions were made.
Doris V's birth certificate will have her parents' names on it.
Electoral rolls archives to see who was living with who and when?
e.g.
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/1062/archive_collections/4670/archive_and_local_collections/9

I have Rachels death certificate and the informant says Irene Jackson , Daughter.
I haven't got James's certificate, and since at that time he didn't seem to be around and family thought he died before Rachel ,i will look into purchasing the certificate. I received this morning an email from my Aunty Joan , my dad's and Dereks sister. i did ask her some basic questions about Rachel & James and she has replied with the Same as Derek.......... James died about 1932 before any of them were born and Rachel died in1935 when Derek was 2 , Joan wasn't born then either.... She also went on to say Wilfred had 2 brothers Cyril and Arthur and 1 sister Irene... She said Irene was put in the sanitarium when Rachel died...............but like i said before this could be down to the many years born apart?? Cyril , Arthur, Irene and Wilfred much closer..........I am meeting up with her in a few weeks ..........she said she has some old papers belonging to Wilfred and Beaty...... so fingers crossed xx
Thanks again for all ur input xx