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Grandparents

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Gwyneth

Gwyneth Report 4 Feb 2013 16:50

I have my dads birth cert. he was born 23rd Sept. 1914 .,named John Owen Williams, his parents were named as John Williams (gardener) and Hannah, nee Hughes. (Domestic) at the time of dads registration they lived at 4Gemig st, St Asaph. I cannot find anything to confirm their births or marriage, any help would be good

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 4 Feb 2013 17:02

Hi Gwyneth

Can you tell us what area please and poss years of birth?

Reggie

Reggie Report 4 Feb 2013 17:05

Births Dec 1914 (>99%)
WILLIAMS John O Hughes St. Asaph 11b 538

K

K Report 4 Feb 2013 17:06

Checked Gemig St in St Asaph in 1911 and no Williams were living there in 1911

Catherine

Catherine Report 4 Feb 2013 17:06

could this be their marriage?

Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
Hughes Hannah Fanny Ruthin 11b 563
Roberts David Ruthin 11b 563
Williams Edith Selina Ruthin 11b 563
Williams John Ruthin 11b 563
The district Ruthin is in the county of Denbighshire

Did your Dad have any siblings?

K

K Report 4 Feb 2013 17:13

A tree on Ancestry lists his father as below -
Birth
1890
Denbighshire County, Wales
Death
1919 Age: 29
Denbighshire County, Wales

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 4 Feb 2013 17:17

Could this be John and Hannah in the 1911 census (although they say they are single at the time) The head of the household is called Owen so John and Hannah's son's middle name could be after him:-

1911 census transcription details for: Pentre Derwen Corwen

PrintClose
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN34096 RG78PN1968 RD622 SD3 ED5 SN8
Reg. District: Ruthin
Sub District: Llanelidan
Parish: Derwen
Enum. District: 5

Address: Pentre Derwen Corwen
County: Denbighshire

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

WILLIAMS, Owen Head Single M 45 1866 Farmer Denbigh Derwen
WILLIAMS, Mary Sister Single F 43 1868 Denbigh Derwen
WILLIAMS, Emily Sister Single F 29 1882 Denbigh Derwen
WILLIAMS, John Visitor Single M 37 1874 House Furnishing Salesman Denbigh Derwen<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
HUGHES, Hannah Servant Single F 22 1889 General Servant Domestic Merioneth Cefn Ddwynern<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
EVANS, Griffith Evan Servant Single M 17 1894 Waggoner On Farm Denbigh Llanfair

Kath. x

Marked As Answer Marked as Answered

safc

safc Report 4 Feb 2013 17:17

wrong marriage

name: David Roberts
event: Marriage
event date: 22 May 1900
event place: Llanrhaiadr Yng Nghinmerch, Denbighshire, Wales
age: 30
estimated birth year: 1870
spouse: Hannah Fanny Hughes
film number:
digital folder number: 004631359

Catherine

Catherine Report 4 Feb 2013 17:25

Thought it worth posting as it was the only one that popped up. Never mind back to the drawing board.

Catherine

Catherine Report 4 Feb 2013 17:32

Wonder if this is the 1911 family :-

1881 Wales Census about John Henry Williams
Name: John Henry Williams
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry Williams
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Williams
Gender: Male
Where born: Derwen, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Derwen
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Pentre
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Ruthin
Sub-registration district: Llanelidan
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5523
Folio: 41
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Williams 38
Elizabeth Williams 37
xxxx Owen Williams 17
xxxx Mary Williams 15
Margaret Williams 10
xxxx John Henry Williams 8
Elizabeth Anne Williams 5
Thomas Williams 4
Robert Herbert Williams 2
xxxx Emily Williams
Catherine Roberts 18
Daniel Jones 19

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 4 Feb 2013 17:34

Could they have married after the birth of John Owen (considering that it was war time? There is this marriage in Denbighshire but they both have middle initials which are not on the birth certificate for their son so might not be the one:-


Name: WILLIAMS, John T
Registration district: Wrexham
County: Denbighshire
Year of registration: 1920
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Hughes
Volume no: 11B
Page no: 562

Name: HUGHES, Hannah D
Registration district: Wrexham
County: Denbighshire
Year of registration: 1920
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Williams
Volume no: 11B
Page no: 562

**EDIT** - don't think this is the correct marriage as there is only one John T. Williams in Wrexham in the 1911 census and he was only born 1903 so would be too young to be John Owen Williams father.

Kath. x

Catherine

Catherine Report 4 Feb 2013 18:01

Going back to 1911 family (and 1881) I think this could be the John Henry Williams in 1891:-

1891 Wales Census about John Henry Williams
Name: John Henry Williams
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Apprentice
Gender: Male
Where born: Derwen, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Llanbeblig
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image

Occupation: Apprentice Drappers Assistant
Registration district: Carnarvon
Sub-registration district: Carnarvon
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4660
Folio: 57
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Ellen Hughes 29
Maggie Hughes 24
Evan Hughes 35
Thos John Owen 25
Evan Williams 16
John Henry Williams 17
Owen Hughes 16
John Jones 14
Wm E Williams 16
John Williams 17
Owen Davies 19
Ellei Ellis 41
Ellen Parry 22
......................................................

Occupation could fit with the John Williams noted as visitor in 1911 census, so could be that he was in fact the brother, even though he is only noted as visitor?

Only problem is, it isn't anything like a Gardener??
He could,of course, changed his occupation between 1911 and 1914 but I'm not sure.

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 4 Feb 2013 18:10

I know this one is a bit late but I wonder?

England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005
about Hannah Hughes
Name: Hannah Hughes
Spouse Surname: Williams
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1917
Registration district: Conway
Inferred County: Caernarvonshire
Volume Number: 11b
Page Number: 707
Find Spouse


Thomas H Williams Hughes Jul-Aug-Sep 1917 Conway Caernarvonshire

John I Williams Hughes Jan-Feb-Mar 1935 Conway Caernarvonshire


Mike *

Mike * Report 4 Feb 2013 18:11

A tree has father born 1888

John Owen Williams
Birth 23 Sept. 1914 in St. Asaph, Wales

Death Mar 1975 in Wisbech, Norfolk, England

parents
John Williams 1888 –
Hannah Hughes

Mike *

Mike * Report 4 Feb 2013 18:14

This one is a gardener



John Henry Williams
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Weston, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Great Crosby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 45 Regent Road Gt Crosby Ur Liverpool
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Gardener (Domestic)
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: Crosby

Name Age
Jane Armstrong 54
Annie Armstrong 25
Marion Armstrong 24
Edward Armstrong 27
George Armstrong 21
Charlies Edmund Wood 29
Thomas Archibald Davidson 35
John Henry Williams 23 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
James Scott 34

Gwyneth

Gwyneth Report 4 Feb 2013 20:11

Mike, that is my dad. I don't know if he had any siblings and don' t know where grandparents were born, my brother in the USA is also running into a brick wall

Reggie

Reggie Report 4 Feb 2013 22:59

You have marked this as answered, which you may not realise is intended to indicate that your query has been FULLY resolved

As far as can be deduced, this is not the case..............................

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 4 Feb 2013 23:12

Do you have your dad's marriage cert? Witnesses might be siblings.

Do you know when your grandparents died?

Rose

Mike *

Mike * Report 4 Feb 2013 23:13

The marriage posted by Catherine of Hannah Hughes to David Roberts would fit with this later marriage...

But the birth cert for your dad should have mother down as Previously Roberts formerly Hughes



Marriages Dec 1911 -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Catherine St Asaph 11b 605
*****Roberts Hannah - St.Asaph 11b 605
Roberts Thomas St.Asaph 11b 605
*****Williams John - St Asaph 11b 605

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 4 Feb 2013 23:19

The fact Hannah is listed as a domestic makes me think your father was their first child. Most likely she wouldn't be working if she had other children.

Hannah and Ann are interchangeable. How about this?

Marriages Sep 1911
***Hughes Ann St.Asaph 11b 531
Roberts Catherine A St Asaph 11b 531
Williams Edward St Asaph 11b 531
***Williams John St Asaph 11b 531

Of course, it's hard to tell if this is the correct couple.

Rose