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Hi. Much progress has been made. Re two points above - the tree I had was incorrect - that Joseph Stock was James Stock. I have now identified the two generations of Pierpoint but cannot link to the Duke of Kingston which has a different spelling

That would be this marriage:

Marriage: 29 Oct 1755 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
Richard Shutt - this Parish
Mary Pierpoint - this Parish
Witness: Henry Houghton; John Fletcher
Married by Licence by: John Lowe Curate
Register: Marriages 1754 - 1765, Page 19, Entry 82
Source: LDS Film 1885708

Their children's baptisms are on LancsOPC
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

I have made some good progress. I now know that Richard Shutt did in fact mary a Mary Pierpoint and that her father was born around 1710 named Ezekiel Pierpoint. Had a number of children including Mary, Ann, James and others. Having difficulty moving any hgher. These generations all around Lancashire. According to an old tree I have Ezekiel's grandfather may have been the Duke of Kingston however I have some doubt about this. any thoughts appreciated

I have made good progress corroborating the tree I shared with you. The elusive part is confirming the Pierrepont link ...

What I have is :
Richard & Mary Shutt nee Peirpoint/Pierpoint.
Issue:
Richard 1757 all born at Billinge
Ezekiel 1759
Mary 1761
Thomas 1763
Ann bc. 1765 (ours)


Ann married James Stock 1784 in St.Helen's Lanc.

James was born 1740 in Wigan, Lanc. s/o James & Ann nee Green. Ann Shutt was his second wife, he married his first wife Elizabeth in 1761 at Leigh Atherton, Lanc. They had 7 children born in Ashton & St. Helens. James & Ann went on to have 11 children.
It appears that after his re-marriage he moved to Ness in Cheshire where he was an under ground mine manager at the Denhall colliery, just down the road from

The tie also appears to be in the glass manufacturing business, as on Edward Stock's will s/o James & Ann (Shutt) it stated that Thomas Stock glass manufacture of Liverpool was an executor of Edwards will. Edward lived at Oxton, near Birkenhead at the time of his death in 1913. Also in the Liverpool Directory for 1830s William & Thomas – glass manufactures are listed in Liverpool.
Another instance the 1841 Census – Edward & Hannah parents of the above Edward and son of James were listed as being with Thomas Stock on the night of the census, glass manufacture.

Great, thanks again. I obtained Thomas Shutt's will. It confirms that Joseph Stock is a nephew. Very wealthy!

I also found a will for a Richard stock a glass merchant from Middlesex who was also very wealthy. He had a brother Thomas Stock - interesting. These wills are hard to read so havent gone through them properly yet. I hope you can make some sense of the bits n pieces i sent.

regards stuart

Thanks again. I have acquired the will and out of interest sent it to you both. I need a magnifying glass and a glass of red to transcribe it into a readable form. However I can see that it confirms Joseph Stock was his nephew making his mother a Shutt which i suspected. It also confirms he was very wealthy given the annuities he was granting. Until i properly descipher it I cant quite tell what would have happened to his interest in British Crown Glass which I suspect was his source of wealth and also whether he had an interest in Bournebrook hall. The names of other nieces and nephews also appear although some are hard to read. I can at this stage not descipher any reference to a wife or children. thanks again, very fascinating

Stuart, if you click on my name you can send me a message and you should be able to attach a file. I'll then take a look and see if there is anything further to find. No promises!

On the 1930s document it shows Josephs parents as another Joseph Stock and an Ann whose parents are a Richard Shutt and Mary (surname unknown). There are then dotted lines to two generations of Pierrpont and then the Duke of Kingston. If you would like to see the doc please send me an email addy I have it scanned. It sat in an elderly relatives cupboard for 60 years!

Hi Stuart, the sources I used were Ancestry, FindMyPast, British Newspaper Archives, FamilySearch (that one is free).

Do you have any idea as to who Joseph's mother might have been?

Wow - thanks for all of that some I have some I do not have. Do you have an email address - if so I will send you a tree and some commentary that was written in the 1930s that came into my possession last week. The tree indicates that possibly through his mother Joseph was related to the Shutts in a way that from my read implies Thomas was his father in law or maybe brother in law. Thomas did die in 1822/4 and that is the right business. interestingly, Bournbrook Hall became the famous Cadbury Bournville site. Harriet his daughter married Robert Smith Bartleet of Redditch needle making fame which is the direction from which I come. Out of interest I have never really mastered the primary research in the english records - I would be fascinated to know which sources you mainly used on the above to get to where you did so quickly. You will also note the alleged link to the Pierrepont's and the Duke of Kingston in the material I sent. From my review of Pierrepont trees on line I have some doubts about this - maybe invented by some "new money industrialists". thanks again for your help

Anne is not with the family in 1851 as she is a pupil:-

1851 England Census about Ann Stock
Name: Ann Stock
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Pupil
Gender: F (Female)

Where born: Bower Brook Hall, Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Edgbaston
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Edgbaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 2h
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 154
Piece: 2049
Folio: 318
Page Number: 52

......................there is also a Sarah Stock visiting:-
Name: Sarah Stock
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Visitor
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Edgbaston
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Edgbaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 2h
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 154
Piece: 2049
Folio: 318
Page Number: 52

(I think I'd be investing in the birth certificate for Ann, to find out mother's maiden name.)

1841 census shows a child Ann who was 4mths old at the time of the census. This is very probably her birth:-

Births Mar 1841 (>99%)
Stock Anna Kings Norton 18 427

.............the certificate will give her mother's maiden name which may help to confirm is there is any link.

Son Thomas does have middle name Shutt which could indicate that mother's maiden name was Shutt, but the other son, Joseph has middle name Sharp?

name Sarah Stock
gender Female
baptism/christening date 24 Jan 1826
baptism/christening place Birmingham, Warwick, England
birth date 13 Sep 1825
father's name Joseph Stock
mother's name Sarah

indexing project (batch) number C03625-3
system origin England-EASy
source film number 502186
.........................................................................

name Harriet Stock
gender Female
baptism/christening date 16 Oct 1827
baptism/christening place SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
birth date 09 Sep 1827
father's name Joseph Stock
mother's name Sarah

indexing project (batch) number C04179-7
system origin England-ODM
source film number 813720, 813721
................................................................

name Elizabeth Stock
gender Female
baptism/christening date 16 Sep 1830
baptism/christening place St. Philip, Birmingham, Warwick, England
birth date 21 Nov 1829
birthplace Selly Hill, Parish of Northfield
father's name Joseph Stock
mother's name Sarah

indexing project (batch) number C01262-5
system origin England-EASy
source film number 502188
........
also under the name of Elizabeth Margaret?
name Elizabeth Margaret Stock
gender Female
baptism/christening date 16 Sep 1830
baptism/christening place SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
birth date 21 Nov 1829
father's name Joseph Stock
mother's name Sarah
indexing project (batch) number C04179-5
system origin England-ODM
source film number 813721, 813722, 813723
...........................................................................

name Joseph Sharp Stock
gender Male
baptism/christening date 26 Oct 1833
baptism/christening place SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
birth date 05 May 1831
father's name Joseph Stock
mother's name Sarah

indexing project (batch) number C04179-5
system origin England-ODM
source film number 813721, 813722, 813723
............................................................

name Margaret Stock
gender Female
baptism/christening date 26 Oct 1833
baptism/christening place SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
birth date 31 Jan 1833
father's name Joseph Stock
mother's name Sarah

indexing project (batch) number C04179-5
system origin England-ODM
source film number 813721, 813722, 813723
..............................................................................

name Charlotte Anne Stock
gender Female
baptism/christening date 27 Dec 1836
baptism/christening place SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
birth date 21 Apr 1836
father's name Joseph Stock
mother's name Sarah

indexing project (batch) number C04179-5
system origin England-ODM
source film number 813721, 813722, 813723

name: Thomas Shutt Stock
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 24 Jan 1826
baptism/christening place: Birmingham, Warwick, England
birth date: 18 Feb 1824

father's name: Joseph Stock
mother's name: Sarah

indexing project (batch) number: C03625-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 502186
reference number: 555
Citing this Record

"England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NT1V-R9S : accessed 06 Feb 2013), Joseph Stock in entry for Thomas Shutt Stock, 24 Jan 1826; citing [REFERENCE-ERROR], reference 555; FHL microfilm 502186.

................unfortunately doesn't give mother's maiden name!

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name: Joseph Stock
Probate Date: 14 Aug 1858
Death Date: 6 Jul 1858 - at 6 Esplanade, Plymouth, Devon.
Death Place: Warwickshire, England
Registry: Principal Registry

Glass and lead merchant, late of Birmingham and Burnbrook, Kings Norton.

Will proven by sons Thomas Shutt Stock and Joseph Sharp Stock, both of Cannon Street, Birmingham and also glass and lead merchants.

So is son Thomas' middle name a tribute to his former business partner or is it a family thing from his wife?

Looks like same family in 1841:-

1841 England Census about Joseph Stock
Name: Joseph Stock
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Gender: Male
Civil parish: Kings Norton
Hundred: Halfshire (Upper Division)
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Bourne Brook Hall

Occupation: Merchant

Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Kings Norton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1197
Book: 23
Folio: 5
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Stock 45 - Not born in county
Sarah Stock 40 - Not born in county
Thomas Stock 15 - Not born in county
Elizabeth Stock 11
Margaret Stock 8
Anne Stock 4 Mo

................I saw this one before, but wasn't sure if it was relevant as didn't have any dates to go by !

Possible baptism for Joseph Stock:

Joseph Stock, "England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000"

name: Joseph Stock
event: Christening
event date: 30 Dec 1792
event place: , Neston, Cheshire, England
gender: Male
father: James Stock
mother: Anne
film number: 2105092
digital folder number: 004018990
image number: 00896

Citing this Record
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FWM6-N4D

If the 1851 is correct, then this is ER for 1836:

Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955
Name: Joseph Stock
Year: 1836
Ward or Division/Constituency: North Warwickshire
Street Address: Bournbrook Hall

Is this Joseph Stock in 1851?

STOCK, Joseph Head Married M 57 1794 Glass & Lead Merchant Ness, Cheshire
STOCK, Sarah Wife Married F 50 1801 Birmn, Warwickshire
STOCK, Harriot Daughter Unmarried F 23 1828 Northfield, Worcestershire
STOCK, Elizabeth Daughter Unmarried F 21 1830 Northfield, Worcestershire
STOCK, Joseph Son Unmarried M 19 1832 Northfield, Worcestershire
STOCK, Margaret Daughter Unmarried F 18 1833 Kingsnorton, Worcestershire
CHATTERTON, John Visitor Married M 41 1810 Agent Derby, Derbyshire
CHATTERTON, Mary Visitor Married F 43 1808 Ashover, Derbyshire
HICKIN, John Servant Unmarried M 34 1817 Coachman Thustone, Warwickshire
RIDER, Mary Servant Unmarried F 37 1814 Cook Westbromwich, Staffordshire
LISTER, Elizabeth Servant Unmarried F 30 1821 Housemaid Broseley, Shropshire
TOMKISS, Ann Servant Unmarried F 24 1827 Housemaid Stourbridge, Worcestershire
PEACOCK, Louisa Servant Unmarried F 29 1822 House Maid London, Middlesex

Piece: 2048 Folio: 215 Page: 4
Registration District: Kings Norton
Civil Parish: Kings Norton

Address: Bourn Brook, Kings Norton County: Worcestershire

Will of Thomas Shutt, Merchant of Harborne , Staffordshire

(above Will on below link. £3.36 to download)


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/wills.htm

Chris :)