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Arthur (Lewis) Jones went to America.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Frances

Frances Report 6 Feb 2013 21:52

How can I find my grandmother's brother Arthur who went to America.
He does not appear at all in census records in the U.K. and most of what I have is guesswork.
My grandmother was the youngest of 6 born 1888-1898. She remembers him when she was a little girl so I am estimating that he went 1900 or after.
I have found a possible birth record of someone called Arthur Lewis Jones - his father's name was Lewis.
I am guessing that he was born before his parents were married but they would have been only 17 and 18 at the time. Alternately Arthur may have been a nickname for the eldest son who disappears off the census records after 1901.
During the second World War an American serviceman called with my grandparents and said that he was Arthur's son.
The family are fond of naming the children after existing family members so names that Arthur may have used for his own children could be Lewis, Sarah Jane, David, Thomas, Mary Blodwen, Willie, Nell and Hetta Flora.
I would be delighted if anyone could point me in the right direction.
With thanks

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 Feb 2013 21:57

Hello Francis, could you give us some birth years of these people and where they were from?

Who were his parents?

With a name like Jones we need as much info as possible!

alviegal

alviegal Report 6 Feb 2013 22:02

Hello Frances, your grandmother's name as well would help us. You don't seem very sure about her year of birth so maybe we could help you there as well?

Or do you mean the six children were born between those years?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 Feb 2013 22:04

Is this the family in 1891?

JONES, Lewis Head Married M 27 1864 Carpenter Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Sarah Jane Wife Married F 28 1863 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, David Thomas Son M 3 1888 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Mary Jane Daughter F 1 (16M) 1890 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire

Piece: 4514 Folio: 47 Page: 7
Registration District: Carmarthen
Civil Parish: Llanarthney
Address: Pant Awal, Llanarthney, Myddfai County: Carmarthenshire
_________________________________________________________________

and 1901?

JONES, Lewis Head Married M 36 1865 Carpenter Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Sarah Jane Wife Married F 37 1864 Carpenter's Wife Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, David Thomas Son Single M 13 1888 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Mary Jane Daughter Single F 11 1890 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, William John Son Single M 8 1893 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Nelly Blodwen Daughter Single F 5 1896 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Hetta Flora Daughter Single F 3 1898 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Dan Boarder Single M 20 1881 Carpenter Llanegwad, Carmarthenshire
LEWIS, David Boarder Single M 17 1884 Carpenter's Apprentice Llanegwad, Carmarthenshire

Piece: 5109 Folio: 40 Page: 1
Registration District: Carmarthen
Civil Parish: Llanarthney

Address: Llwynonillfach, Llanarthney, Treclas And Myddfe County: Carmarthenshire

alviegal

alviegal Report 6 Feb 2013 22:06

1911 census transcription details for: Panttawel Villa Llanarthney Carmarthen
Print Close

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN32995 RG78PN1892 RD599 SD1 ED2 SN47
Reg. District: Carmarthen
Sub District: Llangendeirne
Parish: Llanarthney
Enum. District: 2
Address: Panttawel Villa Llanarthney Carmarthen
County: Carmarthenshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
JONES, Lewis Head Married M 46 1865 Carpenter Llanarthney Carmarthen
JONES, Sarah Jane Wife Married
23 years F 47 1864 Llanarthney Carmarthen
JONES, Mary Jane Daughter Single F 21 1890 House Work Domestic Llanarthney Carmarthen
JONES, William John Son Single M 18 1893 Carpenter Assistant Llanarthney Carmarthen
JONES, Netty Blodwen Daughter Single F 16 1895 Housework Domestic Llanarthney Carmarthen
JONES, Hetta Flora Daughter Single F 13 1898 In School Llanarthney Carmarthen


1901 census transcription details for: Llwynonillfach, Llanarthney, Treclas And Myddfe
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 5109
Folio: 40
Page: 1
Reg. District: Carmarthen
Sub District: Llangendeirne
Parish: Llanarthney
Enum. District: 4
Ecclesiastical District: Llanarthney St David
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Llwynonillfach, Llanarthney, Treclas And Myddfe
County: Carmarthenshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
JONES, Lewis Head Married M 36 1865 Carpenter
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Sarah Jane Wife Married F 37 1864 Carpenter's Wife
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, David Thomas Son Single M 13 1888
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Mary Jane Daughter Single F 11 1890
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, William John Son Single M 8 1893
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Nelly Blodwen Daughter Single F 5 1896
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Hetta Flora Daughter Single F 3 1898
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
JONES, Dan Boarder Single M 20 1881 Carpenter
Llanegwad, Carmarthenshire
LEWIS, David Boarder Single M 17 1884 Carpenter's Apprentice
Llanegwad, Carmarthenshire

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 Feb 2013 22:09

In the OP "During the second World War an American serviceman called with my grandparents and said that he was Arthur's son." - but who was to say that Arthur was her brother? Could he have been the son of e.g. cousin?

alviegal

alviegal Report 6 Feb 2013 22:13

Marriage for parents?

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Print Close
Name: JONES, Lewis
Registration district: Carmarthen
County: Carmarthenshire
Year of registration: 1887
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 11A
Page no: 1426

MarriageFinder: Lewis Jones married one of the following people:

>> EVANS, Sarah Jane

GOWER, Rachel

WILLIAMS, John

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 Feb 2013 22:15

When/where did Lewis Jones and Sarah marry? What was her maiden name?

(This is all useful when checking US records)

Frances

Frances Report 6 Feb 2013 22:17

Arthur's parents were Lewis and Sarah Jane Jones. Lewis born in 1864 and Sarah Jane in 1863- I don't know her maiden name. They may be the couple whose marriage is recorded in October November December 1887.
The Arthur Lewis Jones I have found is born in1881 but he does not fit squarely into the information I have and does not appear in any census record with the rest of the family.
If this is him his parents were very young but this may explain that he possibly lived with relatives and maybe stayed with them after his parents married.
My grandmother was Hetta Flora Jones born 1898.
Her brothers and sisters (and her) were all born between 1888 and1898. An interesting point is that the eldest brother of my grandmother on the census return ( the one who disappears after 1901) is not known at all to my Aunt. She had never heard of him but he was her mother's brother! His name was David Thomas Jones born 1888. This is the person that I am wondering about as to whether he was nicknamed Arthur.
My grandmother's remaining sibs were Mary Blodwen (2nd eldest) Willie (3rd)and Nell.
Another mystery is that the 1911 census states that the family had had 6 children and one had died -no-one now alive knows anything about this.

alviegal

alviegal Report 6 Feb 2013 22:19

Sarah Jane??

1881 census transcription details for: Pantwel, Llanarthney
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 5393
Folio: 52
Page: 10
Reg. District: Carmarthen
Sub District: Llangendeirne
Parish: Llanarthney
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Pantwel, Llanarthney
County: Carmarthenshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
EVANS, Thomas Head Married M 50 1831 Shoe Maker
Llangunnor, Carmarthenshire, Wales
EVANS, Mary Wife Married F 48 1833 Shoe Maker Wife
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire, Wales
>>EVANS, Sarah Jane Daughter Single F 17 1864 Shoe Maker Daur
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire, Wales
EVANS, John Son Single M 12 1869 Scholar
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire, Wales
EVANS, Esther Daughter Single F 4 1877 (Not)
Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire, Wales

Frances

Frances Report 6 Feb 2013 22:22

Oh my goodness- in the time it took me to type slowly you have got all the right family- except Arthur! Where is he?
The American serviceman was certainly accepted by my grandparents as the son of my grandmother's brother.

Frances

Frances Report 6 Feb 2013 22:28

That Sarah Jane is certainly very likely to be the one.
The later census return has the Jones family living in Pantawel Villa so it is too much of a coincidence that they would move in by choice to a house where another Sarah Jane had lived.
In that case I would have thought it very likely that they married in Llanarthney as well - this was within the Carmarthen rregistaration district.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 Feb 2013 22:39

If the 1911 says they'd had 6 children and 5 still alive, then is that not the 5 shown on the 1901? Unless there was a birth and death between 1901 & 1911?

It also looks like the children's names are consistent on census. Note that there isn't a "Mary Blodwen" - it seems they are Mary Jane and Nellie Blodwen.

Frances

Frances Report 6 Feb 2013 23:03

I have just realised that Pant Awel is not a house but a street and Lewis and Sarah Jane lived next door to each other!
What I have also seen is that in the 1891 census, Sarah Jane's sister is named as Esther Arthur which is a little odd. It wouldn't be today but it was then So I looked at the handwritten copy and I think that it says " Arthne" as in Llanarthney. It appears then that she adopted or was using the name to show that she came from Llanarthney. I wonder whether my grandmothers brother Arthur was also Arthne- except that he still doesn't appear and the family would not have called him Arthur as they could say Arthne perfectly well.

Marie Celeste- the combination of 6 and 5 is a bit of a conundrum because my Aunt knew nothing about a child who had died.
I am hoping that my parents will visit the graveyard in Llanarthney soon to see whether there is any mention on Lewis and Sarah Jane's gravestone.
Sorry about Aunty Mary's name-I've only just found out about the Blodwen and obviously written it down wrongly.
I am extremely grateful to you all.

Frances

Frances Report 7 Feb 2013 22:26

Can anyone help with how I can try and find Arthur in America?

Frances

Frances Report 9 Feb 2013 16:20

Please ignore the title. I have now discovered that the name of the person who went to the States was David Thomas Jones born 1888. His parents were Lewis (born 1864) and Sarah Jane Evans(born 1863). He and they were born in Llanarthney.
Since starting another thread this afternoon I seem to have found him on the familysearch site. He was in Scranton Pennsylvania and drafted in 1917. He had a wife and two children.
I am in the process of reading more than 9000 entries to try and find out more. Have read 30 pages so far!
As you can tell my computer skills are limited! I can't find a refining function.
I really want to find out what family remain in the States now.
I need his wife's name - I understand that she was Welsh from Carmarthen. I presume they were married before he left the U.K.
I need his children's names although I believe he had a son Arthur. His daughter in law was a librarian in Washington. Someone had a maiden name of Abel.
I would like to know where he is buried.
I would be very grateful indeed if anyone could point me in the direction of the sites I need.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 9 Feb 2013 16:31

This must be the draft card:

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
Name: David Thomas Jones
City: Scranton
County: Lackawanna
State: Pennsylvania
Birthplace: England
Birth Date: 29 Jan 1888
Race: Caucasian (White)
Draft Board: 2
Age: 29
Occupation: Carpenter
Nearest Relative:
Height/Build:
Colour of Eyes/Hair:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-26637-5847-26?cc=1968530&wc=M9MT-RJT:n1317503658

_____________________________________________________________

By WW2 he lived in Maryland and had two artificial arms:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11879-171-98?cc=1861144&wc=MMRW-TJ7:n1472798619

Frances

Frances Report 9 Feb 2013 16:35

Yes that is what I had found this afternoon. I feel that there is now a foot in the door as without knowing where he went in the States this was a needle in a haystack.
Its moving on from here that I now need to do. Its not surprising that every David Thomas Jones I'm turning up was born in Wales! Apparently Scranton has the largest Welsh graveyard in the world!

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 9 Feb 2013 16:41

Not sure if this is the right chap in 1930? The location matches the WW1 draft but the occupation doesn't:

1930 United States Federal Census

Name: David Jones
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1887 [abt 1888]
Birthplace: Wales
Race: White
Home in 1930: Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania

Marital Status: Married
Immigration Year: 1925 << Would be too late
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: May Jones
Father's Birthplace: Wales
Mother's Birthplace: Wales

Occupation: Labourer (coal mine)
Education:
Military Service:
Rent/home value:
Age at first marriage: 33

Household Members:
Name Age
David Jones 43 [42]
May Jones 33
Norman Jones 8 b Wales
Jeddie Bryant 35 (lodger)

No, this can't be them but will leave for elimination purposes.

Frances

Frances Report 9 Feb 2013 16:51

Yes I agree the date of immigration is too late but I'm thrilled with what you are turning up.
Imagine being a carpenter and loosing your hands