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Arthur (Lewis) Jones went to America.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 14 Mar 2013 19:50

There's not much info on this but Spencer did live in Detroit .....

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=JON&GSpartial=1&GSbyrel=all&GSst=24&GScntry=4&GSsr=8441&GRid=13081478&

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 14 Mar 2013 19:36

It doesn't give an age for Alice on his naturalisation, just that she was born Aberdeen ?? South Wales.

U.S., Naturalization Records - Original Documents, 1795-1972 (World Archives Project)
Name: Spencer Curwen Jones [Spencer Jones]
Age: 29
Birth Date: 17 Apr 1889
Birth Location: Carmarthen, S Wales
Spouse: Alice
Children: Irene born 13 Dec 1916
Arrival Year: 1910
Issue Date: 28 May 1918
State: Pennsylvania
Locality, Court: Middle District of Pennsylvania, District Court

He was a press man, living 1118 Price Street.

Referees were George Christopher Stephens, a pressman and Frank J Jones, a clerk. Both of Scranton.

Frances

Frances Report 14 Mar 2013 19:11

Me again!
Good evening from a cold Anglesey.
I have had a great time following up leads on my family tree and now have two further queries if anyone could find it in their hearts to help again?
1. Spencer C. Jones aged 21 sailed to the U.S. with David's wife and children. I have now found out that he was Spencer Curwen Jones born 17/4/1890 in Carmarthen South Wales. He was one of the sons of Thomas Caeralaw Jones and Catherine Jones. Thomas's brother was Lewis Jones- father of the David we found above. Spencer and David were therefore 1st cousins.
I have found Spencer in 1917 in Scranton City No. 2 Pennsylvania. His draft is on line.
In the 1940 census we learn that he has a wife Alice who is 39 and was born in Wales and a daughter Irene 23 born in Pennsylvania and a son William 19 born in Missouri . The family lives in Detroit where Spencer works on the Detroit Times. His next relative is Albert Davis who lives at 3003 Garland Avenue.
I can't seem to go any further.
a.When and where did he die and where is he buried. Similarly his wife.
b. Where did they marry- she would have been only16 when Irene was born.
c. Can I find out whether they have any ancestors alive?

2. The second query should be available to me in the |U.K. but I'm finding it difficult.I can't find Thomas Caeralaw Jones in the 1911 census. I know that he was alive- he died on the 2nd August 1924 or 1929. In the 1891 and 1901 censuses he lived at 16 Bridge St Carmarthen. However from July of 1898 to June of 1900 he lost 3 daughters and his wife. I can only think that he may have gone to live with a relative but in 1914 there is a photo of him where he is described as living in the Emlyn Arms Llanarthney.
He was born in 1854 in Llanarthney. Catherine was born in 1857- I think it reads in Conwil which is now known as Cynwyl Elfed outside Carmarthen.

Am I hoping for too much?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 Feb 2013 22:58

mgnv - we have had this debate before!

mgnv

mgnv Report 12 Feb 2013 21:45

You can say pretty much the same thing abt many states, e.g.,

For Maryland (which was a colony all on it's own and not a country) there is now one central repository.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 Feb 2013 19:09

Well 4 is a darn site easier than 51!

For England (which is a country all on it's own and note a state) there is one central repository.

mgnv

mgnv Report 12 Feb 2013 10:34

MC - what makes you think the US situation is "not like here". My kids ancestors were all born in the UK, but to get their b.certs, my kids would have to buy from Southport, Dublin and Edinburgh.

Really, the only difference is there's 51 states and territories in the USA, rather than just the 4 repositories of UK certs - (I don't need to use Belfast).

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 11 Feb 2013 23:26

Frances, that's right - the US records are generally held by state, not like here.

Can you give us a rough idea of dates for Lena (when/where born)?

Frances

Frances Report 11 Feb 2013 22:48

Having seen how much work is involved I appreciate your help even more. Do you mean then that there isn't a single collection deposited anywhere in the States?
For example , I see that as Arthur was buried in Arlington that his wife wasn't buried with him. Can you tell me the steps I follow to ascertain where she is buried. (Lena Frances Jones)

mgnv

mgnv Report 11 Feb 2013 03:20

Frances - A couple of things - firstly, like the UK, the US has no national system of BMD registration, and every country/state has it's own rules abt what must be rego'ed, and when, and what can be released, and when.
To get a US record, I'ld first go to http://www.cyndislist.com/us/ then pick the state and proceed thence.

Secondly, US nominal census day was 1 June 1850-1900, then 15/4/1910, 1/1/1920, 2/4/1930, 1/1/1940.
The US census wasn't conducted like the UK one. In the US, the enumerator went door to door and gathered the details on the door-step.
He had abt a month in rural districts and a couple of weeks in urban ones (I read this somewhere, but I don't recall the exact details, nor the census to which it applied).
I don't know abt US enumeration districts, but I know some Canadian districts covered over 500 sq miles.
It would be insane to adopt the UK model, having some guy go out and drop off census forms, then have him go round again after census day and pick up the completed forms and, when necessary, help fill them out.
With a 500 sq m district, obviously nearly all the time is spent travelling around the district.

As you'll see from the 1910 header, this form was filled out 14 d after the nominal day - it was supposed to reflect the usual h/h as of 15/4/1910, so newly dead folk would be included, and the newly born omitted (in theory).
I don't know if this is your David - he's a laborer in a coal mine, and his landlord says he's single.
It wasn't unusual for the man or an older son to go out first, get stuff (jobs, lodging, etc) sorted, then send for the rest of the family.

name: David Jones
birthplace: Wales
relationship to head of household:
residence: Scranton Ward 1, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania
marital status: Single
race : White
gender: Male
immigration year: 1900
father's birthplace: Wales
mother's birthplace: Wales
family number: 195
page number: 11
Household Gender Age Birthplace
self Elias Thomas M 35y Wales
wife Sarah A Thomas F 48y Wales
son Thomas J Thomas M 16y Pennsylvania
son Joseph Thomas M 13y Pennsylvania
son Luvie Thomas M 10y Pennsylvania
William Jones M 38y Wales
David Jones M 23y Wales
Arthur John M 21y Wales
Citing this Record
"United States Census, 1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MG4N-8KC : accessed 11 Feb 2013), David Jones in household of Elias Thomas, Scranton Ward 1, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania; citing sheet 11A, family 195, NARA microfilm publication T624, FHL microfilm 1375371.

Scranton in Lackawanna Co was in the NE corner(ish) of PA

Magnify 4 clicks, then save image:
http://archive.org/stream/13thcensus1910po1358unit#page/n710/mode/1up
http://archive.org/stream/14thcensusofpopu207unit#page/n169/mode/1up

Re the 1940 Lucy - doesn't look like the 1920 Louisa to me, but I don't see a marr (but I don't really know where he was in between).

EDIT I don't want to mislead - the 1940 Mt Rainier is a town in MD, abutting DC.

Frances

Frances Report 10 Feb 2013 20:35

Astonishing! I should just have left you all to it!
Yes this must be Arthur who visited my grandparents.
I see that no-one has been able to find his record of sailing out because I have been searching for this and also failing to find it.
To see that they sailed on the Lusitania!
I need to find out who Spencer Jones is- have you noticed how many carpenters there are? It is said that Lewis Jones also took teeth out and ran the local pub. There are people who remember sitting in half finished coffins to have their teeth extracted.
I am also going to find out if Arthur and Lena had children as they would also be my second cousins. Interesting that Lena's name is (Lena) Frances Jones as that is my name.
I shall be ringing the States again shortly.
Thank you so much again. Makes me feel like giving up the day job!

alviegal

alviegal Report 10 Feb 2013 18:31

???


Social Security Death Index about L. Frances F. Jones
Name: L. Frances F. Jones
SSN: 578-40-8304
Last Residence: 20737 Riverdale, Prince Georges, Maryland, United States of America
Born: 3 Feb 1906
Died: 18 May 1994
State (Year) SSN issued: District of Columbia (Before 1951)



U.S. Public Records Index, Volume 1 about L Frances Jones
Name: L Frances Jones
Birth Date: 3 Feb 1906
Address: 5009 Somerset Rd, Riverdale, MD, 20737-1137 (1993)
[5902 31st Ave Apt 416, Hyattsville, MD, 20782-2908]

alviegal

alviegal Report 10 Feb 2013 18:24

??


U.S. Veterans Gravesites, ca.1775-2006 about Arthur Lewis Jones
Name: Arthur Lewis Jones
Service Info.: PFC HDQ BTRY 416 F A GP FA U S A
Birth Date: 7 Apr 1910
Death Date: 11 Aug 1957
Interment Date: 14 Aug 1957
Cemetery: Arlington National Cemetery
Cemetery Address: C/O Director Arlington, VA 22211
Buried At: Section 33 Site 8194



Social Security Death Index about Arthur Jones
Name: Arthur Jones
SSN: 214-03-9498
Born: 7 Apr 1910
Died: Aug 1957
State (Year) SSN issued: Maryland (Before 1951)




U.S. National Cemetery Interment Control Forms, 1928-1962 about Arthur Lewis Jones
Name: Arthur Lewis Jones
Death Date: 11 Aug 1957
Cemetery: Arlington National Cemetery
Burial Location: Arlington, Virginia


Lena Frances Jones of 5705 36 Ave. West Hyattsville , Md. was his widow.




http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=JO&GSfn=a&GSpartial=1&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=48&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GSsr=1961&GRid=49239509&df=all&

alviegal

alviegal Report 10 Feb 2013 18:18

???


U.S. World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946 about Arthur L Jones
Name: Arthur L Jones
Birth Year: 1910
Race: White, citizen (White)

Enlistment Date: 3 Dec 1943
Enlistment State: Maryland
Enlistment City: Baltimore
Branch: No branch assignment
Branch Code: No branch assignment
Grade: Private
Grade Code: Private
Term of Enlistment: Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law
Component: Selectees (Enlisted Men)
Source: Civil Life

Education: 3 years of high school
Civil Occupation: Carpenters
Marital Status: Married
Height: 00
Weight: 000

Renes

Renes Report 10 Feb 2013 18:09

Congratulation to all in this search .....

Most interesting read I have had for a while ....


Great researching ....

alviegal

alviegal Report 10 Feb 2013 18:09

So happy for you Frances! That was a real stroke of luck and I must admit, I thought your chances of going further were very slim indeed.

Just shows you, never give up hope. I really hope your connection to your new found family proves to be very happy and fruitful.

Best wishes Liz x

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 10 Feb 2013 17:00

I think Arthur may have been too young to have had a son in WW2 so was it actually Arthur who turned up at your gran's house?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 10 Feb 2013 16:50

Family in 1920:

1920 United States Federal Census

Name: David F Jones (It is David T)
Age: 32
Birth Year: abt 1888
Birthplace: Wales
Home in 1920: Washington, Washington, District of Columbia
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1910 (same for all of them)
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Louisa Jones
Father's Birthplace: Wales
Mother's Birthplace: Wales
Home Owned: Rent
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors:

Household Members:
Name Age
David F Jones 32 Carpenter
Louisa Jones 32
Minnie Jones 14
Arthur L Jones 9

Street Address: 10091/2 4 ½ Street SW

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 10 Feb 2013 16:45

Just to tidy up some loose ends, I've found the elusive Arthur going to US with his mum and sister:

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Arthur L Jones
Arrival Date: 13 Oct 1910
Birth Date: abt 1910
Age: 6 Months
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Welsh
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Lusitania

Travelling with mum Louisa (25), Minnie (4) - all three born Llanarthney, Wales. Travelling to father David T Jones at 8 Acre Avenue, Scranton PA.

With them was a cousin Spencer C Jones (21) a carpenter, born Carmarthen.

mgnv

mgnv Report 10 Feb 2013 16:31

MC - I saw your WW2 draft card, so I looked for David Jones in MD - 249 hits.
I added pob=Wales, b 1886-1891 and got just the one hit, and saw it was Peter's h/h, and he was the WW2 addy knower, so I'd got our Dai.