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Hart & Mooney's, Garston, Liverpool.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

David

David Report 10 Feb 2013 15:50

Really need help with this one. I,ve been searching for over 10 years for a connection in Liverpool to my grandfather Hugh Hart, born 14-8-1894.

He ran away from home ( so he said ) aged 15 & never went back to Liverpool again. He joined the army under age & fought in WW1, was captured & came back in 1918.

His family are a total mystery as he would never speak of them apart from once saying he might have a brother called Michael or John, & may have a sister called Mary?

His father was called John Hart, born around 1859 possibly in Liverpool. His mother was Mary Mooney, born around 1846 and again possibly born in Liverpool. They were married on the 3-3-1893 in St Francis of Assisi church in Garston, Liverpool. According to their wedding cert, John's father was James Hart and Mary's father was Thomas Mooney. After they wed, they lived in Vulcan St, Garston where John Hart was a dock worker.

This is all we know, no more relations have ever been found. I,m in a hurry to find out more about Hugh and his roots as my mother is now 82, and would really like to know why he ran away and who his family really were.

Any help very much appreciated.

Potty

Potty Report 10 Feb 2013 16:20

Possible in 1901 - there is as James and John Hart with him. I haven't posted all the names - very long list:

1901 England Census
about Hugh Hart
Name: Hugh Hart
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Garston, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Whiston
Ecclesiastical parish: Rainhill St Anne
Town: Whiston
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: Prescot Union Workhouse and Nurses Home
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 3516
Folio: 186
Page Number: 27

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 10 Feb 2013 16:21

Hi David.

Might this be him 1911? Just for reference:


1911 England Census about Hugh Hart
Name: Hugh Hart
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Private
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Parston Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Fulwood
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Marital Status: Single
Military unit: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Registration district: Preston
Registration District Number: 476
Sub-registration district: Broughton
ED, institution, or vessel: 18-22
Piece: 25367

Did wonder about this???

1901 England Census

Name: Hugh Hart
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Garston, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Whiston
Ecclesiastical parish: Rainhill St Anne
Town: Whiston
County/Island: Lancashire

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: Prescot Union Workhouse and Nurses Home

Jan

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 10 Feb 2013 16:24

?

1881 England Census

Name: John Hart
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Garston
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 8 Vulcan St

Occupation: Labourer Docks (Serv)

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Wavertree

Michael Smith 30
Sarah Smith 28
Felix Smith 8
Michael Jas. Smith 5
Thomas Smith 3
Elizabeth Smith 1
Ellen Kerrone 67
John Hart 25
Thomas Hart 25
Thomas Frowby 25

Potty

Potty Report 10 Feb 2013 16:28

1911 - in the Army but doesn't seem to have lied about his age:

1911 England Census
about Hugh Hart
Name: Hugh Hart
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Private
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Parston Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Fulwood
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Marital Status: Single
Military unit: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Registration district: Preston
Registration District Number: 476
Sub-registration district: Broughton
ED, institution, or vessel: 18-22
Piece: 25367

David

David Report 10 Feb 2013 17:15

Thank you very much everyone for the quick responses.

I did know of the workhouse record, but didn't know that James was on it too! As for his army record, that is spot on.

The one item that has got me thinking now is the John Hart aged 25 listing. You say that John lived or lodged at No.8 Vulcan St. Very interesting this one, on my grandfathers birth certificate it say's that the residence of the infant is also No.8 Vulcan St, Garston, in 1894.

Coincidence, that John was living there as a boarder in 1881. We might just have a break through here at last ! Also a Thomas Hart aged 25 too, twins?

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 10 Feb 2013 17:26

There must be a connection with your John Hart - I would hazard a guess this is his father? Right address and occupation after all!
Who were the witnesses on the marriage cert, and are there addresses for John and Mary?
Jan

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 10 Feb 2013 17:29

Also - can you re-check please re Mary's YOB?

David

David Report 10 Feb 2013 17:35

Hi Jan, the 2 witness's on the marriage cert were Robert & Mary Healey.

At the time of marriage both John Hart & Mary Mooney put down an address of No.1 Thomas St, Garston.

Also they have both put that their respective fathers were deceased.

John's age on the cert was 33 years old, Mary was 29.

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 10 Feb 2013 17:39

So that makes Mary's YOB about 1864? I think you reversed this on your original post!! (1846).

David

David Report 10 Feb 2013 17:48

Oh bugger!! Sorry, i hadn't noticed i had made that mistake! Yes, around 1864 would be correct. I,ve had a quick look through my old records & re-found a print off from 1901 of a Mary Hart. She was a prisoner in Walton, West Derby, in Hi Majesty's Prison, not a workhouse! Her age was 37, est birth year of 1864.( RG13/3457 ) ( Folio 57)( Page 40). But the trouble is getting this confirmed as my Mary Hart. I have no one to bounce this information off.

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 10 Feb 2013 18:01

Well, I would be cautiously optimistic about that - it would certainly explain what happened to the family.
I am going to put this, as it might help if we can pin down the birthplace to either confirm or exclude it - I think it's a mis-transcription but can't make it out:

1901 England Census
Name: Mary Hart
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Prisoner
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Walton on the Hill
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: His Majestys Prison

Dea

Dea Report 10 Feb 2013 18:08

It says - born Woolton Lancashire!

Dea x

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 10 Feb 2013 18:08

I think this is the above Mary 1911. She is recorded as married for 30 years(?), 4 children, 3 still living. She is resident in West Derby Workhouse. Still impossible to say if yours unfortunately.

1911 England Census about Mary Hort
Name: Mary Hort
Age in 1911: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Inmate
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Walton on the Hill
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 50-54
Piece: 22406

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 10 Feb 2013 18:09

Dea - is there a Woolton lancs though??
EDIT I see there is!
Jan

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 10 Feb 2013 18:16

Woolton part of Met.Borough of L'Pool since (?1912) South of the City..

Dea

Dea Report 10 Feb 2013 18:17

There appears to be a Woolton nearish to Liverpool!

Dea Xxx

David

David Report 10 Feb 2013 18:25

If this was my relation, it would explain why Hugh Hart was in a workhouse aged 6.

But again, is this my Hugh? This is as far as i,ve ever been able to get myself, if i could just find a relation to triangle-ate my information off i might be able to progress a little further.

Your info about John Hart lodging with a penitential brother Thomas might bring up something?

Dave.

David

David Report 10 Feb 2013 18:49

Sorry, Edit........... Penitential, Should read...... potential !!!

Angela

Angela Report 19 May 2013 16:55

Just to join this discussion - My family are Harts. Lived in Vulcan Street, Garston, and apparently Woolton too.
We may have two Hart families happening here :) Totally unsure. Lets try to get to the bottom of it!

I *think* Thomas and Maria Hart are my Great Grandparents. They lived in Woolton during the 1901 census. On that Census two daughters are listed. Mary, aged 8, and Annie, aged 4. I believe that Annie is my Granny. The year of birth fits. And if you look at the census, even though they lived in Woolton (which is Marias place of birth), Daughter Annie was born in Garston (and Daughter Mary was born in St Helens). So Thomas and Maria must have been unsettled during that period. Thomas was born in Ireland according to the census. I haven't looked at my ancenstory documents for awhile, so could be wrong but I think I deduced that Thomas came to Garston in the later 1800s with a brother. Or I guessed it was a brother as in some documents they seemed to be boarders in a house in Garston together.

Anyway my Granny Annie, married a Harrison in Garston in 1919, and lived in Vulcan Street. She never left the area. Moving a couple of times but only to King Street which vulcan street is (was - its gone now) off. Her sister Mary married a Doolan.

For now I have this Hart family from Woolton listed as my ancestors, feel pretty confident.

Not sure if this helps or hinders or makes NIL difference. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. We are likely related in any event at some point.


1901 Census Household Record
Household information
Address Back Of 26 Rodick St
Civil Parish Much Woolton
Rural District
Town or Village or Hamlet
Ecclesiastical Parish St Peters
Parliamentary Borough or Division Widnes S W Lanc
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Much Woolton
Administrative County Lancashire
Householder 1
Name Annie Hart
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 4
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Garston
Language
Infirmity
Householder 2
Name Maria Hart
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 32
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation Laundress Wash
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Woolton
Language
Infirmity
Householder 3
Name Mary Hart
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 8
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc St Helens
Language
Infirmity
Householder 4
Name Thomas Hart
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 40
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Bricklayers Labourer
Employment Status
Where Born Ireland