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It's been so difficult for me to find anything out about my grandfather Hugh Hart as he swore my grandmother to keep it secret! Why? We have no idea about, what must have been something to be ashamed of in the early part of the last century would most likely be laughed at these days. That said, my grandmother took it to her grave and never revealed his secret.

My surnames are Hart, Mooney.

Hi David, they are a mysterious lot aren't they?! Hard to find documents. :-S

Hi Angela, I'll be back in touch very soon as i don't have my records to hand at the mo. Your lead is very interesting and might just be the lead i need to make sense of my Grandfathers past!

Oh looking thru the posts it says John and Thomas shared as boarders in Vulcan St. Yes I saw that document I believe I concluded from other research I did that one brother was 25 and one brother was a few years different (from a birth cert or other doc I had seen) but can't recall. When I get back up to speed with all the documents I will post here which brother was which. (If indeed they are brothers). But I think they are...

Just to join this discussion - My family are Harts. Lived in Vulcan Street, Garston, and apparently Woolton too.
We may have two Hart families happening here :) Totally unsure. Lets try to get to the bottom of it!

I *think* Thomas and Maria Hart are my Great Grandparents. They lived in Woolton during the 1901 census. On that Census two daughters are listed. Mary, aged 8, and Annie, aged 4. I believe that Annie is my Granny. The year of birth fits. And if you look at the census, even though they lived in Woolton (which is Marias place of birth), Daughter Annie was born in Garston (and Daughter Mary was born in St Helens). So Thomas and Maria must have been unsettled during that period. Thomas was born in Ireland according to the census. I haven't looked at my ancenstory documents for awhile, so could be wrong but I think I deduced that Thomas came to Garston in the later 1800s with a brother. Or I guessed it was a brother as in some documents they seemed to be boarders in a house in Garston together.

Anyway my Granny Annie, married a Harrison in Garston in 1919, and lived in Vulcan Street. She never left the area. Moving a couple of times but only to King Street which vulcan street is (was - its gone now) off. Her sister Mary married a Doolan.

For now I have this Hart family from Woolton listed as my ancestors, feel pretty confident.

Not sure if this helps or hinders or makes NIL difference. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. We are likely related in any event at some point.


1901 Census Household Record
Household information
Address Back Of 26 Rodick St
Civil Parish Much Woolton
Rural District
Town or Village or Hamlet
Ecclesiastical Parish St Peters
Parliamentary Borough or Division Widnes S W Lanc
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Much Woolton
Administrative County Lancashire
Householder 1
Name Annie Hart
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 4
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Garston
Language
Infirmity
Householder 2
Name Maria Hart
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 32
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation Laundress Wash
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Woolton
Language
Infirmity
Householder 3
Name Mary Hart
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 8
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc St Helens
Language
Infirmity
Householder 4
Name Thomas Hart
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 40
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Bricklayers Labourer
Employment Status
Where Born Ireland

Sorry, Edit........... Penitential, Should read...... potential !!!

If this was my relation, it would explain why Hugh Hart was in a workhouse aged 6.

But again, is this my Hugh? This is as far as i,ve ever been able to get myself, if i could just find a relation to triangle-ate my information off i might be able to progress a little further.

Your info about John Hart lodging with a penitential brother Thomas might bring up something?

Dave.

There appears to be a Woolton nearish to Liverpool!

Dea Xxx

Woolton part of Met.Borough of L'Pool since (?1912) South of the City..

Dea - is there a Woolton lancs though??
EDIT I see there is!
Jan

I think this is the above Mary 1911. She is recorded as married for 30 years(?), 4 children, 3 still living. She is resident in West Derby Workhouse. Still impossible to say if yours unfortunately.

1911 England Census about Mary Hort
Name: Mary Hort
Age in 1911: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Inmate
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Walton on the Hill
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 50-54
Piece: 22406

It says - born Woolton Lancashire!

Dea x

Well, I would be cautiously optimistic about that - it would certainly explain what happened to the family.
I am going to put this, as it might help if we can pin down the birthplace to either confirm or exclude it - I think it's a mis-transcription but can't make it out:

1901 England Census
Name: Mary Hart
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Prisoner
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Walton on the Hill
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: His Majestys Prison

Oh bugger!! Sorry, i hadn't noticed i had made that mistake! Yes, around 1864 would be correct. I,ve had a quick look through my old records & re-found a print off from 1901 of a Mary Hart. She was a prisoner in Walton, West Derby, in Hi Majesty's Prison, not a workhouse! Her age was 37, est birth year of 1864.( RG13/3457 ) ( Folio 57)( Page 40). But the trouble is getting this confirmed as my Mary Hart. I have no one to bounce this information off.

So that makes Mary's YOB about 1864? I think you reversed this on your original post!! (1846).

Hi Jan, the 2 witness's on the marriage cert were Robert & Mary Healey.

At the time of marriage both John Hart & Mary Mooney put down an address of No.1 Thomas St, Garston.

Also they have both put that their respective fathers were deceased.

John's age on the cert was 33 years old, Mary was 29.

Also - can you re-check please re Mary's YOB?

There must be a connection with your John Hart - I would hazard a guess this is his father? Right address and occupation after all!
Who were the witnesses on the marriage cert, and are there addresses for John and Mary?
Jan

Thank you very much everyone for the quick responses.

I did know of the workhouse record, but didn't know that James was on it too! As for his army record, that is spot on.

The one item that has got me thinking now is the John Hart aged 25 listing. You say that John lived or lodged at No.8 Vulcan St. Very interesting this one, on my grandfathers birth certificate it say's that the residence of the infant is also No.8 Vulcan St, Garston, in 1894.

Coincidence, that John was living there as a boarder in 1881. We might just have a break through here at last ! Also a Thomas Hart aged 25 too, twins?

1911 - in the Army but doesn't seem to have lied about his age:

1911 England Census
about Hugh Hart
Name: Hugh Hart
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Private
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Parston Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Fulwood
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Marital Status: Single
Military unit: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Registration district: Preston
Registration District Number: 476
Sub-registration district: Broughton
ED, institution, or vessel: 18-22
Piece: 25367