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A. Smith

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Peter

Peter Report 11 Feb 2013 23:01

OK, so this a very unusal request, even by my standards.

A death certificate has just been shared with me of my STEP ancestor Mary Welch - she died on 12 November 1897 at 143 Duncombe Street, Middlesbrough, Yorkshire.

Her informant was:

A. Smith
Cousin
Present at the death
29 Nile Street, Middlesbrough

Mary's maiden name was Pattison, and I am wanting to find out who her informant is.

Can you help?!

Peter

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 11 Feb 2013 23:21

Peter, I can only suggest you trawl through all the Smiths in Middlesbrough. Sorry.

There are no Smiths at that address in 1901.

You say "step" ancestor - who was she "step" to?

Reggie

Reggie Report 11 Feb 2013 23:29

You'll have to research Mary Pattison's family....................

If the informant was a FIRST cousin (and you've no way of knowing).......one of his or her parents must have been a sibling to one of Mary's parents.

Peter

Peter Report 11 Feb 2013 23:34

She was the step mother of my gggg grandmother ... and I suspected so! But still, thankyou for the help!

Peter

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Feb 2013 00:37

How old was she at death?

What was the address of the informant?

Does it give the name of her husband, Mr Welch?

A death cert doesn't usually give the maiden name of a married woman - so how do you know it was Pattison?

Dea

Dea Report 12 Feb 2013 08:13

I can't see her death registration unless it is this one (spelt WELSH) ??

Deaths Dec 1897
Welsh Mary 41 Middlesbro' 9d 353

Dea x

Catherine

Catherine Report 12 Feb 2013 09:17

How sure are you of your information?

I could only find 2 possible marriages for a Welch to a female Pattison:-

Marriages Sep 1893 (>99%)
Goodwill Christiana Thirsk 9d 704
Pattison Henrietta Thirsk 9d 704
SIDDLE Joseph Thirsk 9d 704
Welch Arthur Thirsk 9d 704
and
Marriages Sep 1882 (>99%)
Eland Henry Durham 10a 479
Lamb Eleanor Durham 10a 479
Pattison Elizabeth Durham 10a 479
WELCH David Durham 10a 479

and I couldn't see any Mary Welch born abt. 1856 living in Middlesbrough?

However, I did find this, which would fit with the death record found by Dea:-

1881 England Census about Mary Welsh
Name: Mary Welsh
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Boarder Wife (Boarder's Wife)
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesbro, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Middlesbrough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address: 33 Albert St
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Middlesbrough
Sub-registration district: Middlesbrough
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4848
Folio: 51
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
John Welsh 24 born: Ferryhill, Durham
Mary Welsh 23
Joseph Welsh 2
Helen Welsh

.................is this the family?

Dea

Dea Report 12 Feb 2013 09:20

I was looking at this family to fit the death cert??

Can you please confirm which we should be looking at Peter?

1891 census transcription details for: 56, Parliament Street, Linthorpe, Middlesbrough
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 4014
Folio: 48
Page: 9
Reg. District: Middlesbrough
Sub District: Middlesbrough
Parish: Linthorpe
Enum. District: 65
Ecclesiastical District: St Pauls
City/Municipal Borough: Middlesbrough
Address: 56, Parliament Street, Linthorpe, Middlesbrough
County: Yorkshire (North Riding)
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
WELSH, James Head Married M 33 1858 Steel Smelter
Selby, Yorkshire
WELSH, Mary Wife Married F 35 1856
Carlisle, Cumberland
WELSH, Peter B Son M 4 1887
Scotland
WELSH, James ? Son M 3 1888
Scotland


Dea x

P.S. - If it IS this family - the marriage could have taken place in Scotland as the children were born there.

Dea x

Reggie

Reggie Report 12 Feb 2013 09:31

Peter

Who were Mary's parents?

Those are the details needed to start looking for her cousin....................

Find their names..............look for siblings...........find who the siblings married. If one of them married Smith........look for offspring of that marriage

You can do this yourself using freebmd - IF they lived etc in England

You haven't even said where Mary was born...........her place of death is of no real help in this quest.

NOR have you said how old she was when she died..............enlighten us, please.


Catherine

Catherine Report 12 Feb 2013 09:44

Dea, I think this is your family in 1901:-

1901 England Census about Mary Lawson
Name: Mary Lawson
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Lawson
Gender: Female
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Civil parish: Byker
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street Address:

Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: Byker
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 157
Piece: 4789
Folio: 131
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
James Lawson 48
Mary Lawson 45
Peter Welsh 14 - born: Scotland
James Welsh 13 - born: Scotland
John Lawson 13 -
Edward Welsh 12
Annie Welsh 8
Andrew Lawson 7

..............Mary remarried to James Lawson.

Dea

Dea Report 12 Feb 2013 10:28

You are right Catherine - thank you.

It could not be the correct one then if Mary was still alive in 1901!

Dea x

BarbaraFromYorkshire

BarbaraFromYorkshire Report 12 Feb 2013 11:48

Marriage ??


Marriages Dec 1874
Baker Margaret Darlington 10a 75
Leeming John Darlington 10a 75
>>>Pattison Mary Darlington 10a 75
>>>WELCH Thomas Darlington10a 75
--------------------------------------------------------------

1881 census ???? Down as Welsh

1881 England Census 1881 England Census
Name: Thomas Welsh
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Welsh
Gender: Male
Where born: Scarborough, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Bishop Auckland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address: 9 Newton Cap Terr
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Marine Stores Genl Shop

Registration district: Auckland
Sub-registration district: Bishop Auckland
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4913
Folio: 65
Page Number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Welsh 28 head-----Scarborough, Yorkshire
Mary Welsh 25--wife ----Stockton, Durham
Ellen Welsh 14 --Hartlepool, Durham
John Welsh 12 ----Hartlepool, Durham

Margaret Welsh 3 --Hartlepool, Durham
Christiana Welsh 1 ---Hartlepool, Durham


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4913; Folio: 65; Page: 29; GSU roll: 1342182.


=========================================================

On Ancestry a tree ( is it yours Peter ?) Has Mary's Parents as --

Thomas Pattison 1827-1905 and Bridget Melody 1835-

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It also has Thomas married before Mary to Jane Magee with children

Mary Ann Welch --b1864
Thomas b1865
Ellen 1866
John1869


Then it looks as if Thomas went on to have a further 9 children with Mary

Barbara x

No nearer to finding A. Smith though :-(

Reggie

Reggie Report 12 Feb 2013 12:52

?????
1871 England Census about Mary Pattison
Name: Mary Pattison
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Durham, England
Civil parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Darlington
Sub-registration district: Darlington
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 238
Piece: 4883
Folio: 105
Page Number: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Pattison 58
Ann Pattison 64
Thomas Pattison 14
Robert Pattison 8
Thomas Pattison 44 Brother, born GLASGOW
Bridget Pattison 35
William Pattison 18
Mary Pattison 14
Bessie Pattison 14
Annie Pattison 10
Margaret Pattison 8
Thomas Pattison 4

Reggie

Reggie Report 12 Feb 2013 12:56

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Bridget Melody
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1850
Registration district: York
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume Number: 23
Page Number: 796

On the same page: Thomas Pattison

Look for Pattison/Smith and Melody/Smith marriages



Peter

Peter Report 12 Feb 2013 17:56

Hi,

Sorry for any confusion ... I initially thought that A. Smith would be living at her address in 1901.

Mary Pattison was the one born in Stockton in 1856, daughter of Thomas and Bridget (mother's name not known). She married Thomas WELCH/WELSH in 1874 in Darlington, County Durham ... she was living in Bishop Auckland in 1881. She and her family can not be found in 1891.

From reflecting, I am not sure where to go ... I have a lot of confusion with these families, and various threads have been carried on them (all specific).

Peter

Peter

Peter Report 12 Feb 2013 19:21

Possible:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1866 (>99%)
FINLEY Margaret C Stockton 10a 137 Scan available - click to view
PATTISON Annie Stockton 10a 137 Scan available - click to view
RUTTER Henry Stockton 10a 137 Scan available - click to view
SMITH Daniel Stockton 10a 137 Scan available - click to view

Catherine

Catherine Report 12 Feb 2013 20:41

So am I correct in thinking that the Thomas Welch/Welsh in Barbara's 1881 census is the correct one, then he was born abt. 1853.
In which case, he was very advanced for his years.

1881:- aged 28yrs old he already had 2 children aged 14yrs and 12yrs, which would have made him 14yrs old when he had the first one and if he was married at the time, then he must of married when he was 13yrs old ?
If the tree on ancestry is correct, then he had his first child, in 1864, when he was 11yrs old. That's very young even for those days.


Or am I missing something here??

Peter

Peter Report 12 Feb 2013 21:03

Basically he lied about his age. I obviously don't know why, but yes, he was born c. 1841.

Catherine

Catherine Report 12 Feb 2013 21:15

This would go with the ancestry tree:-

Marriages Jun 1861 (>99%)
Magee Jane Stockton 10a 73
Stainsby Ralph Stockton 10a 73
Stephenson Hannah Stockton 10a 73
Welsh Thomas Stockton 10a 73

Peter

Peter Report 12 Feb 2013 21:40

Yes thank you Catherine - I already have this information but didn't mention as I didn't think it was nessesary here.

Can I help with other details?!