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Thank you to every one that has help so far . But yet again hit a solid brick wall so if anyone can help in tearing it down it be much appreciated x

My great grand father James Sanderson born 1894 married Ethel Chadwick born 1893 .
James died in 1922 in Rwael Pindi the army erected a head stone in his name......so far so good !!!!
I'm looking to go back further with this side of the family BUT James .b 1894 his Father was also called James Sanderson born ???? on Great grandads marriage cert... his father is deceased ???? any ideas how i get passed this boulder ??? as i dont even know where GGdad James was born.........all i know is he married in Salford ???
if anyone has any ideas ......Thank you xxxxx

Do you know what occupation James 1894 had please as that may shed some light on his father?????

When did James 1894 marry please? you hav'nt given us a year and what was the name of his children?

Marriage: 5 Sep 1914 Christ Church, Salford, Lancashire, England
James Sanderson - 20, Driller, Bachelor, 13 North St.
Ethel Chadwick - 21, Spinner, Spinster, 13 North St.
Groom's Father: James Sanderson, (deceased), Oiler
Bride's Father: James Thomas Chadwick, Labourer
Witness: David Jones; Mary Graham
Married by Banns by: A. W. Thompson, Rector
Register: Marriages 1914 - 1919, Page 17, Entry 33
Source: LDS Film 1786370

Did your James have a middle name? If so then this looks like his birth, buy the birth cert it will give both parents,

Sanderson James Augustine Salford Births Jun 1894 8d 155

you should be able to find them on the census

Roy

Where was Ethel born and what was her fathers name and occupation?

Oh well done Safc.

????

name: James Sanderson
event: Census
event date: 1911
gender: Male
age: 16
birthplace: Burton Salford
record type: Household
registration district: Salford
sub-district: Regent Road
parish: Salford
county: Lancashire

????

name: James Sanderson
event: Census
event date: 1911
gender: Male
age: 16
birthplace: Burton Salford
record type: Household
registration district: Salford
sub-district: Regent Road
parish: Salford
county: Lancashire

?????

1911 England Census
about James Sanderson
Name: James Sanderson
Age in 1911: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 36 Gertrude St Salford
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Apprentice Brass Finishine
Registration district: Salford
Registration District Number: 465
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 24051
Household Members: Name Age

James Sanderson 50 Labourer in Dye Works******** Could this be to do with being a Oiler??

Elizabeth Sanderson 44
James Sanderson 16 Brass finisher?????
Mary Ann Sanderson 15
Elizabeth Sanderson 12
John Sanderson 10

Sanderson - Pte J. - Royal Army Service Corps.
Grave at Rawalpindi - "In memory of No. 18764 Private J. Sanderson. No.25 MT Company, Royal Army Service Corps. Died at Rawalpindi 16 Oct. 1922."

(if him, on below link)

http://www.angelfire.com/mp/memorials/menS1.htm

Chris :)

Thanks safc and chris ho But I already have all this info of ethel and james marriage I have the certificates and all the army documents of his death and picture the army sent of the grave. But its finding the correct d.o.b. For the correct James 1894 since I have no details of brothers / sisters or mothers maiden name..... Even Ethel my G.Gran didn't know of his mother only his fathers name and that he was deceased. Thank you to everyone for comments xxx

Marriages Jun 1892 (>99%)
CHAMBERS James Waddell Salford 8d 242
Fairbrother Martha Elizabeth Salford 8d 242
>>>>McCormick Elizabeth Salford 8d 242
>>>>SANDERSON James Salford 8d 242

on 1901 census father in law James McCormick is living with them
- slightly differing ages from 1911 but same address and names

1901

Name: James Sanderson
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Sanderson
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Sanderson
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Ordsall in Salford St Clement
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 36 Gertrude Street.

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 40
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 200
Piece: 3737
Folio: 21
Page Number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
James Sanderson 38 b. Ireland
Elizabeth Sanderson 30 b. Derby
James Sanderson 8
Mary Ann Sanderson 5
Elizabeth Sanderson 9 Months
James McCormick 60 Widower, Father-in-law, Retired Hawker, b. Derbyshire, Derby

I suspect that the above isn't the correct family if your James Sanderson's father had died before 1914.

I think this is the death of the James (Senior) in the above census and the one posted for 1911.

Deaths Dec 1932 Sanderson James 72 Salford 8d 321

I agree rootgather. was beginning to wonder when I found that death and no other between 1911 & 1914

UNLESS he falsified his father's death as James was under age when he married and would have needed his father's permission

Thank you every one , i just finished work so will give the exact dates i have on file , the Marriage that safc has posted is the Correct marriage.....

James Sanderson ( 20 )& Ethel Chadwick (21 ) 05/09/1914 at Christ Church Salford.

Chris Ho:) that is right, I have the photographs of the grave and documents.

James was about 10 / 12months younger than Ethel . When they got married my G.Gran was expecting!! they married in the September as their daughter was born in the November 1914.

But as James's father was deceased ( oiler ) and he was called James Sanderson i am at a loss as to whom my G.Grandad's mother is......

all the searches i have done give me numerous names of James Sanderson's whom married ???? ( different people had different children etc ) and like "lancashireAnn" has said the dates of death dont seem to tie in?? some thing just not fitting ??? this is how come im at a loss.........

G.Grandad James b.1894... was 20 when he married Ethel ( she 21 )...... is this classed as Under-age???
G.Gdad James was 28 when he died in India

on 1911 census Ethel aged 18 was living at home with her father and 3 sisters ....Union Street , Salford.
when she married was at 13 North Street , Salford.

my mum has some old notes from when Ethel used to talk about "the old days" and Ethel said James's father ( deceased J.Sanderson) came from Ireland and was a devout catholic..... James 1894.... was brought up catholic BUT Ethel was Cof E !!! not sure if Christ Church is catholic or C of E.???? Ethel brought up her children Ethel L ,& James Cof E. .

I have even tried to trace back using their daughter's middle name since most back then incorporated a parents name in the childs name but came to a dead end with that........... I still have no idea where Ethel and James came up with the middle name for their daughter , even though i have called my daughter the same name :) Louvaine...

Thank you all so much for your time and comments , i really do appreciate it so very much. xxxx

Not seeing many James Sandersons on the 1901 Irish census and they all seem to be Presbyterian.

It is always possible that he was Illegitimate and made up a name for his father to save face when he married.


OR his father may have died when he was very young and he just assumed that his father was named James?

anyone under the age of 21 was 'under age'.

Christ church Salford is CofE

It is possible they married in both C of E & RC churches (though probably not if their children were brought up Cof E)

Maybe James just said his father was deceased because he had been disowned for marrying 'out of the faith'.

(just thinking out loud really)

I agree with you Ann , i had them thoughts too , maybe disowned ?? I only have the 1 marriage cert. for them at Christ Church.... its a bit battered as when my g.gran had a row with her hubby she ripped up the cert....in pieces.... but the they must have " kissed & made up " as it was stuck back together at some point with the edges of old stamps... ( the little white bits with perforations , where you'd pull the stamp from )....
Thanks roots , i too came to a loss with the Irish census ??

Any idea's if the army records would hold parental information ??? I know he was away in the army when his daughter died 18/01/1917. My g. gran resented the army for not allowing him home to bury her. However he did come home just afterwards.... not sure on exact date , but my grandad James was born Oct 1917. Though i can not be 100% certain that my G.Gran didn't an affair while James was away. i believe my grandad to be his biological son!

My G.Gran never re-married , she brought up her son James on her own, took washing in to earn money and continued to live in the house they moved to(,in Levenshulme) on her own until she died in the Jan .1994 aged 100 yrs ( she would have been 101 in the July )
She was a strong willed, independent woman with a love of life. But was saddened at times that she had outlived her children... she would say " no parent should have to bury a child let alone 2" but the close family she had around made her happy.. grandchildren and great grand- children etc. my mum ,dad and me lived next door but 1 and seen her every day xx

Thanks again to all of you for all of your help xxx