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In 1861, my great GREAT grandparents Thomas and Jane Llewellyn are at home at their farm in "Lanedarn". With them is their 8 year old grandson Sydney Bailey.


Name: Sydney Bailey
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Lanedarn, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llanedeyrn
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Caerphilly
ED, institution, or vessel: 10b
Household schedule number: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4030
Folio: 31
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Llewellyn 56
Jane Llewellyn 56
Thomas Llewellyn 22
Sydney Bailey 8
Mary MA Carthy 15

Six pages on are his parents Ann and Oliver Bailey


Name: Ann Bailey
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Oliver Bailey
Gender: Female
Where born: Roath, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llanedeyrn
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Caerphilly
ED, institution, or vessel: 10b
Household schedule number: 52
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4030
Folio: 34
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Oliver Bailey 31
Ann Bailey 31
Thomas Bailey 9
Samuel Bailey 5
Mary Jane Bailey 1

Ann - nee Llewellyn - is Thomas and Jane's daughter.

This census is the ONLY record I have of Sydney. I can't find a birth, another census or a death.

Having said that I can't find births for many of his siblings either!

This is the family in 1871

Name: Ann Bailey
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Oliver Bailey
Gender: Female
Where born: Roath, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil parish: Llanedarn
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Whitchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 50
Piece: 5354
Folio: 9
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Oliver Bailey 44
Ann Bailey 42
Thomas Bailey 19
Samuel Bailey 15
Oliver Bailey 7
George Bailey 5
John Bailey 3
Francis Bailey 1 Month

The only sibling missing (apart from Sydney) is Mary Jane who died in 1863.

Can anyone throw any light on Sydney? I really don't know why I have him as Sydney Bailey Bailey.

Something I don't understand, Jude, is that you say that Thomas & Jane Llewellyn are your gt. grandparents so their grandson Sidney is the same generation as your parent. But he was born 1853. Is that possible?

Sorry missed a great out!!!! ha ha!

Ann Llewellyn/Bailey was the sister of my (real) great grandfather Lewis llewellyn!!

Jude

To clarify

Me 1950's...my dad 1920's..my grandad 1880's...my great grandad 1830's...my great great grandad 1807ish

Sydney's mother 1829....

Gotcha! I thought, maybe you were 100 years old or so.

I can't find anything on Sydney, Jude.

Yeah I'm a witch Margee!!!! It was confirmed today...I am trying to persuade my boss to spend £4000 on a new photocopier which also is a printer, a scanner and a fax. On the basis that the colour printer we have is ten years old and can't last much longer...that was what I said last Thursday.....and yesterday the printer conked out :-)

I sometimes feel a hundred mind ;-) ;-)

No Margee...I couldn't (was really wanting everyone to say to me that I wasn't being stupid)

Jude

Well an update...I found a christening on October 2nd 1853...and it explains why I have him as Sidney Bailey Bailey because under the heading "Child's Christian Name" it says Sidney Bailey son of ....Oliver and Anne Bailey ergo Sidney Bailey Bailey...but I can't find him after 1861 still

EDITS - alive in June 1878 - witness at his brother's wedding

Jude

Is it possible he was in the Boar war and didn't survive .

That may explain why you can't find him later

May be a different man !

Print this page View image
First Name Sydney
Last Name Bailey
Age At Attestation Months -
Age At Attestation Years -
Record set British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Attestation Day 28
Attestation Month November
Year Of Birth -
Document Type Discharge
Year 1884
Birth Country -
Birth County -
Attestation Corps -
Birth Parish -
Attestation Soldier Number -
Birth Town -
Discharge Corps -
Discharge Soldier Number -
Rank -
Box 0240
Regiment -
Box Record Number -
Soldier Number -
Series WO121
Dataset Title Chelsea Pensioners discharge documents 1760-1887
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Record collection Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

Shot in the dark


Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902 Transcription
First Name S
Last Name Bailey
Soldier Number Unknown
Rank Private
Regiment The Royal Welsh Fusiliers
Year 1899-1902
Notes [In Memoriam Roll of Honour Imperial Forces Anglo-Boer War 1899-1902. Steve Watt, University of Natal Press, Pietermaritzburg 2000]
Memorials Cathay Park. National Memorial. Cardiff, SOUTH GLAMORGAN, Wales St Giles. North side Tower. Tablet. Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Wrexham, CLWYD, Wales
Units -
Casualties Details: Enteric on 23 June 1900 at Potchefstroom (Official casualty roll location: Potchefstroom)
Unit: The Royal Welsh Fusiliers
Source: South African Field Force. JB Hayward & Sons
Gazetteer: [2626: 2643-2705] a town in the South African Republic (Potchefstroom district; North West), 45 km north-west of Parys. The town and district furnished burghers for a commando (Cmdt A.P.J. Cronjé?, Cmdt M.J. Wolmarans, Cmdt, A.M. Redlinghuys, Cmdt J.T. Martins, Cmdt F.J. Roos). The advanced troops of Brig-Gen B.T. Mahon's 10th divisional cavalry occupied the town on 11 June 1900; it was entrenched for defense and garrisoned. It was evacuated on 8 August, the garrison marching to Rietfontein after destroying surplus supplies and ammunition; it was reoccupied by the Boers. During this period it was visited by Chief-Cmdt C.R de Wet. On 10 September 1900 the town was surrounded by Maj-Gen A.F. Hart's column and 78 burghers taken prisoner; he evacuated the temporary garrison which he had left there on 15 September. By January 1901, it was a base for the refitting and resupply of British columns operating in the western Transvaal. It was the location of a white concentration refugee camp. HMG III pp.232, 247, 347 and 376-377 (map no.38), IV p.128 (map no.59); Times IV pp.224, 362 and 426 (map facing p.432), V p.9 (map facing p.412); De Wet p.192; Cd.819.
Record set Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Record collection Boer Wars
Collections from Great Britain

I've also searched for him with absolutly nothing apart from some of the info found by Shirley.

Thought I'd found something, a Sydney Bailey married Mary Jane Parker in 1889, Barwick in Elmet (Yorkshire) - and he named his father Jacob Coat (stonemason), which seemed a bit odd, so I wondered if Sydney was a "problem" child. Staying with grandparents in 1861 maybe taken in by Jacob Coat.

However, I can't find Jacob Coat with a Sydney and according to later census (living Leeds) Sydney was from Somerset - so it looks like another dead end.

Unfortunately there are a lot of Baileys and,as is the norm, siblings children are named the same! The other five boys had 48 children between them!

I'll look into the Boer War angle. I have found a potential marriage June 1874 in Cardiff to Mary Ann Jones. The other witness at Samuel's wedding was Mary Ann Bailey which then fits with the 1874 marriage. May just send for it out of curiosity!

But I can't find either of them in 1881.

What I find strange is that I have eight siblings born between 1851 and 1871 - cannot find births for Sidney/Sydney (1853) or Samuel 1855. And I have found baptisms for the first four and the last one but the three in the middle do not appear to have been baptised.

Maybe they couldn't be bothered registering the births - and as the middle 3 don't appear to have been christened maybe they were in a different parish for a while but back in home parish in time for the youngest?

It seems strange they didn't get them christened at same time as the youngest - unless they had already christened them in another parish.

OK the marriage certificate came today....note to self - NEVER EVER order again on a Friday night! It has take 11 days to arrive.

Anyway - it's a bingo feeling :-)

It is indeed my Sidney/Sydney and here are the details:

Date 13 April 1874 at Cardiff Register Office

Sidney aged 20 of 9 Charels Street Roath which is the same address as his brothers and his nephew's marriage.

Father Oliver Bailey - labourer - checks out although he is latterly a plasterer

he married Mary Ann Jones, spinster, aged 21 years of 17 Croft Street Roath. Father David Jones deceased.

The witnesses were William Phillips and Celia Roberts who mean absolutely nothing to me.

So...where was Sidney in 1871?

And he was alive in 1878 (as was Mary Ann) so where were they in 1881?

I am going to have a look for Mary Ann prior to the marriage but Mary Ann daughter of David Jones in Wales = needle in a haystack!

Oh and Sidney was a labourer too so think the soldier angle is a blind alley :-(

Jude

1871 Wales Census
Name:Celia Roberts
Age:19
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1852
Relation:Servant
Gender:Female
Where born:Bedwas, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish:
Eglwysilan
Town:Caerphilly
County/Island:Glamorgan
Country:Wales
Registration district:Pontypridd
Sub-registration district:Pontypridd
ED, institution, or vessel:1
Household schedule number:1
Piece:5374
Folio:4
Page Number:1


Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
James Phebe Merthyr T 11a 600
PHILLIPS William Merthyr T 11a 600
Roberts Celia Merthyr T 11a 600
Thomas John Merthyr T 11a 600

(possibly!, William on same 1871 image, Mary Ann Jones over the page, with Mother Ann, widow)

Chris :)

1861 Wales Census
Name:Ann Jones
Age:29
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1832
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:David Jones
Gender:Female
Where born:Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township:Eglwysilan
County/Island:Glamorgan
Country:Wales
Registration district:Cardiff
Sub-registration district:Caerphilly
ED, institution, or vessel:8b
Household schedule number:34
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece:4030
Folio:16
Page Number:7
Household Members:
NameAge
David Jones 32 (Coal Miner)
Ann Jones 29
Elizabeth Jones 8
Mary Ann Jones 5
John Jones 3
Rachel Jones 7mo
James Davies

Yep Chris reckon they are all correct....but where do Sidney and Mary Ann disappear to after 1878 :-(

Do you know if Sidney had any children ?
Any names ?

Mike....not a clue. Until recently I had no sight of him after 1861. Then I found he was still alive and a witness at brothrr's wedding in1878 which led to me finding the 1874 marriage. But still haven't found him in any census after 1861 or her after their marriage.