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Palmer Family (travellers???)

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

EllenS

EllenS Report 1 Aug 2013 15:33

So (I think this is correct) Alfred Stephen palmer married Mary A E Viller in 1927 in Islington

Alfred and Mary Palmer had Alfred Palmer (he changed his name to Frederick Palmer)

Frederick Palmer married Iris W Viller

Frederick (aka Alfred) and Iris are first cousins??

EllenS

EllenS Report 1 Aug 2013 13:56

Maybe I should try finding all the descendants of Stephen and Jane. I have found the descendants of Timothy Palmer and Alfred Palmer but they don't know much either. I have been told that there were Travellers in the family but they are not too sure what side (either Connelly or Palmer). I have this email from the descendant of Alfred Palmer but cant quite understand it. Would anyone be able to help as I have had no reply from her for a while now. am sorry to have miss led you but it was only on reading your email this am i realised i had written samuel instead of stephen.

There is a reason for this it being that i have the memorial card for my great grandad confiming his name as stephen. The other members of the Palmer family i know also confirm him as stephen. These other people being my dads siblings. They also lovingly refer to there uncle "Teddy" Edward James.

but on my grandfathers marriage certificate i find he is listed as samuel. andrew.

whilst researching my family trees i have come across this sort of thing often.

I should have typed that my grandfather was one of stephens and janes sons born in 1907 my grandfathers army papers also confirm his mother as jane, he had written as next of kin as jane but had overwritten it with my grandmother name.

I have been to the cemetary where Stephen Andrew was interred but no evidence of him remains as they dug up and moved the graves some time back, I dont know if the people in charge of the cemetary would have any records that might help but i am very doubtful,

My grandfathers name is Alfred Stephen Palmer.



My mum sent me a copy of email you sent to her. as she thought it might be for me as she is only dealing with her side of the family including my mum and dads shared grandfather.

I wondered if Rebbecca King might be related to Elizabeth King (Elizabeth is Jane Connellys mother).

I hope this makes things a bit clearer and is of some help to you.

my mum and dad are first cousins and as a witness to mum and dads shared grandad Joseph Anthony Viller s wedding certificate is a Rebbecca king.

Stephen Alfred Palmer b.1907 in Holborn he married Mary A E Viller in 1927 in Islington. The lady of the email parents are mother Iris W Viller and your father Frederick R Plamer.

All of my life i have know my dad as Fredrick as he changed his name when he went into the army and about ten years ago we had it done officially, The reason for it being he believed there were to many Alfred's in the family and he couldnt stand being called alfie, a few relatives still call him it,



you may like to try searching for Alfred R.M.S. Palmer. but as dad is still living it may be more difficult, he was born in 1929.

Can anyone help??

EllenS

EllenS Report 27 Jul 2013 13:39

Hi, yes that is mine on the other site. I was trying to find out what occupation "Traveller" was. Whether it meant Gypsie or Traveller selling something. Still have came up with nothing. I don't think Stephen was in WW1 as I cant find no record of him.

DIZZI

DIZZI Report 30 Jun 2013 23:02

BEEN LOOKING BUT I DONT THINK ITS THE SAME TRAVELLER
YOUR THINKING,I THINK HE WAS A TRAVELLING SALES MAN
NOT A TRAVELLER

DIZZI

DIZZI Report 29 Jun 2013 22:02

IS THIS YOURS ON ANOTHER SITE

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=557845.0

EllenS

EllenS Report 28 Jun 2013 09:54

I will try and research Stephens wife's family (Connelly) as there may be some Info there somewhere

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 28 Jun 2013 09:49

That's a shame, was a lot more info., quite a long running 'Thread'.

Just one of those 'Brick Walls' I think...

Chris :)

edits (below link to help Connelly side)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1297903

EllenS

EllenS Report 28 Jun 2013 09:43

No I accidently deleted it. I had to copy all the findings that I had saved. All the info above is correct. The name Palmer does not appear to be a "Traveller" surname or related in any way as I have searched the traveller and gypsy sites??

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 28 Jun 2013 09:30

Do you still have other 'Thread' relating Ellen?, can remember quite a few of us adding Baptisms, Marriages, Burials etc., but no conclusion...

Chris :)

EllenS

EllenS Report 28 Jun 2013 09:18

Hi, does anyone know of any other records that might help me search for info on Stephen A Palmer?

EllenS

EllenS Report 23 Feb 2013 22:22

After going round in circles and not getting anywhere I have came to the conclusion that the above family are not related to my Stephen Palmer. If Stephens father was a stonemason he would have put that on his marriage cert as it is a skill. I am not sure what sort of traveller Stephens father was. I have had a look on the Gypsie sites but cant find the name Palmer anywhere??

EllenS

EllenS Report 23 Feb 2013 21:27

Do you think that Stephen lied about his age on his marriage cert cos he was much older than Jane? Also on the 1901 census Stephen did not put where he was born so might not of known, also in 1911 the census was filled out by someone else and put the name down as Connlly (Thomas) and year of birth was 1868 the same year as on the death cert. Do you think the family moody blue found in 1881 could be that of Stephen's family?? I dont know how to trace the family through the census records (I have just got a subscription for GR but have never used it before, always used another site) Can someone help me search the above family please

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 23 Feb 2013 20:15

Note the year of birth is the same as on the death reference for Stephen A Palmer.

1881 census transcription details for: 150, Old Woolwich Rd, Greenwich
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 724
Folio: 38
Page: 27
Reg. District: Greenwich
Sub District: Greenwich East
Parish: Greenwich
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 150, Old Woolwich Rd, Greenwich
County: London, Kent
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
PALMER, William Head Married M 34 1847 Stonemason
London (Parish Nk), London, Middlesex
PALMER, Elizabeth Wife Married F 36 1845
Haverhill, Suffolk
PALMER, Stephen Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar
Haverhill, Suffolk
PALMER, Charles Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar
Haverhill, Suffolk
PALMER, Thomas Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar
Dartford, Kent
PALMER, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 2 1879
Dartford, Kent
PALMER, Thomas Brother Single M 33 1848 Laborer
London (Parish Nk), London, Middlesex

Flip

Flip Report 23 Feb 2013 17:33

Yes, it's fairly common in th Traveller community - they have their own rules. His father was a Traveller according to his marriage. Take a look at this site, and if you google it there are others out there:

http://www.rtfhs.org.uk/

EllenS

EllenS Report 23 Feb 2013 16:14

Thank you Moody Blue. Just cant go back to his father William, his mother or his grand parents. Has anyone come across this before ?? . Stephen's wife Jane Connelly, her family came from Ireland. I wonder if Stephens family also come from there?? It is so frustrating :-S

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 22 Feb 2013 22:57


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Mary Ann Palmer
Name: Mary Ann Palmer
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Oct 1897 born 5th Oct 1897
Father's Name: Stephen Andrew Palmer...............carman
Mother's name: Jane Palmer
Parish or Poor Law Union: Finsbury St Luke
Borough: Islington
Register Type: Parish Registers
address:- 5 Beckford Square

Moody Blue

Moody Blue Report 22 Feb 2013 22:51


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about William Andrew Palmer
Name: William Andrew Palmer
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 28 Sep 1898
Father's Name: Stephen Palmer......carman
Mother's name: Jane Palmer
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hoxton St Mary
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers
address:- 65 Britannia St.

EllenS

EllenS Report 22 Feb 2013 21:56

There doesn;t seem to be a birth certificate for Stephen Andrew Palmer or a Baptism and Stephen dont seem to appear in the 1881-1891 census neither does William.????? I just dont know where else to look :-S

EllenS

EllenS Report 22 Feb 2013 21:38

Hi, I have gained this info through various sites but I still cant find Stephen's father William Palmer. I have been told through family members that I have maaged to find that there were travellers in the family but they dont now if it was through the Palmer side or the connellys. Would anyone be able to help as I dont know where else to go and look. Info so far On Stephen Andrew Palmer, Father William Palmer, Spouse Jane Connelly.

1941-living at 14 arundel square islington- occupation was General Porter. Casuse of death-cardiac failiure and cronic bronchtis, jane still living in 1941.
c1928 occupation was Porter
1905- lived at 5 Hatfield Street. Occupation Jewellers Porter.
1901- lived at 47-45 Westmoreland Place, shoreditch, WAS A COAL DEALER, CARMAN.
1898- living at 65 Brittania Street. Stephen was a Carman.
1894 -lived at 29 1/2 Gt Pearl Street.
1881-1891- can not find him in the cencus.
Marriage

Name: Stephen Andrew Palmer (Carman)
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Spouse Name: Jane Connelly
Spouse Age: 18
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 07 Apr 1894
Parish: St Stephen, Spitalfields
County: London
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: William Palmer (Traveller)
Spouse Father Name: Timothy Connelly


1901

Name: Stephen Palmer
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Palmer
Gender: Male

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Hoxton
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Carman

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Hoxton New Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 270
Piece: 271
Folio: 121
Page Number: 41
Household Members: Name Age
Stephen Palmer 26
Jane Palmer 23
William Palmer 5
Jane Palmer 3
John Palmer 1

1911 (name change)

CONNLLY, Thomas Head M 45 1866 Silversmith's Porter London Chelsea VIEW
CONNLLY, Jane Wife Married
11 years F 34 1877 London Hoxton VIEW
CONNLLY, William Son Single M 15 1896 Printer London St Lukes VIEW
CONNLLY, Jane Daughter F 14 1897 School London St Lukes VIEW
CONNLLY, Emily Daughter F 6 1905 School London St Lukes VIEW
CONNLLY, Timothy Son M 8 1903 School London St Lukes VIEW
CONNLLY, Edward Son M 7 1904 School London St Lukes VIEW
CONNLLY, Alfred Son M 4 1907 School London St Lukes VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1345 Reference:
RG14PN1345 RG78PN46 RD16 SD1 ED24 SN136

Registration District:
Shoreditch Sub District:
Shoreditch South Enumeration District:
24 Parish:
Shoreditch

Address:
115 Britannia St Hoxton County:
London


original says married 17 years (not 11)

7 children born, 6 still living


Thomas' occupation is a Silversmith's Porter

in 1912 -

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1835-1965

Name: Stephen Palmer
Electoral Year: 1912
County or Borough: Hackney
Parliamentary Division: Hoxton


Address - 115 BRITANNIA STREET, HOXTON

The address also ties in with the other Electoral Years:
1913- 13 Nelson Street Hoxton
1915- 1 Westmoreland Place Hoxton
1934- Gee Steet EC1
1937- 13 Central Street EC1
1938- 13 Central Street EC1
1939- 3 Domingo Street EC1


Death Of Stephen

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Stephen A Palmer
Name: Stephen A Palmer
Birth Date: abt 1868
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1941
Age at Death: 73
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1b
Page: 172

Death of Jane palmer
England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Jane Palmer
Name: Jane Palmer
Birth Date: abt 1877
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1965
Age at Death: 88
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 1169