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Born Halifax/Denholme/west Yorkshire - who knows he changes his mind with every census. I just can't find him as a carpenter/joiner prior to 1861 - all the ones I can find are something to do with weaving so highly unlikely. Or all the John Ogden's I can see in 1851 (married) are still with their wives in 1861.

So why didn't they marry?

Reggie - I think Len answered the wrong question & he meant that Thomas's father John was born Yorkshire - Halifax according to the census

Len

You wrote

"I think he was born Yorkshire but moved to London, Hackney or Shoreditch."

Earlier, you said you have the birth cert.......so it doesn't make sense to say that

Not sure if this helps or hinders., but will post if even to eliminate this Susannah............

Name: Alfred Frederick John Ogden
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 28 Mar 1869 ....born 1st January
Father's Name: John Ogden ............coach smith
Mother's name: Susannah Ogden
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stepney St Dunstan and All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Family lived 32 Smith Street.

1891 Hackney D32 > 58
John Ogden widow born @ 1824 Denholme west yorkshire a carpenter.

Denholme is about 15mins away from Halifax West Yorkshire.

Maryb.

It has just found that one for me - took about 5 mins

but I do not know anything about the areas of London either

What about this one? And yes freebmd is working slowly for me as well!

Fanny Ogden
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1860
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 28 (click to see others on page)

Not sure if this is anywhere near where they were living though.

piecing together now - though it would be nice to know if Len has this

Births Sep 1852 (>99%)
Baldwin Henry Ogden E. London 1c 36

Births Jun 1854 (>99%)
Baldwin Eliza Ogden St Luke 1b 544

not found Fanny yet but freebmd is working v v slowly for me today

So, a dual registration - this is normal if parents are not married, the birth is registered under both names if the father attends the registry office at time of registration - so this is one child but 2 registrations I would think.

I'm pretty sure I found the other children;s births earlier on today, and none were in Shoreditch, but I don't know London well enough to know whether the areas are close.

agree Flip - I was wondering how he identified which birth certificate to but as there is not one in Shoreditch

there is only this one

Births Mar 1857 (>99%)
Ogden Thomas St Luke 1b 563

as Henry, Eliza & Fanny also do not have a registration in Shoreditch (or St Luke) I wondered if any of them were actually registered as there was no penalty for non-registration in the 1850's


edit

interestingly on the same page

Births Mar 1857 (>99%)
Baldwin Thomas St Luke 1b 563

I thought the same about that death Ann. However, I don't think Len is saying the father is not named on the BC, just that it's strange the mother is not listed as Susan Ogden (formerly Baldwin) which would be the norm for BCs.

Could do with more information from Len on the birth certificate he has.

on the 1861 census Susan was age 30

the Susannah Baldwin who died in 1870 was 47 -rather a large gap in age??

I may be missing something here but how do you know his father was John Ogden if he is not mentioned on the birth certificate please

are you sure you have the correct birth certificate as Thomas may not have been registered. I can't see a registration for any of the children in Shoreditch

I can't see a Baldwin/Ogden marriage, if the above census is correct she hadn't been married before - so wonder if John was already married? Just wish he'd stick to the same birth place - changes from West Riding (1901), just Yorkshire & Halifax.

Hi, on other birth certs I have they say the married name and then formaly maiden name.

This could be Susan, a bonnet maker and single according to 1851:

Susan Baldwin
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Redbourn, Hertfordshire, England

Civil parish: St Sepulchre
Ecclesiastical parish: St Sepulchre
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Saffron Hill
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 50
Piece: 1515
Folio: 305
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
Rachel Bunker 27
John Bunker 6
Susan Baldwin 22
Joseph Freeman 19

Rather badly transcribed 1841 - but father Thomas. mother fanny could be a coincidence but 1861 states born Hertfordshire

Susan Ballawies
[Susan Baldwin]
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Gender: Female
Where born: Hertfordshire, England

Civil parish: Redbourn
Hundred: Cashio
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: St Albans
Sub-registration district: Harpenden
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 438
Book: 18
Folio: 16
Page Number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Ballawies 50
Fanny Ballawies 40
John Ballawies 20
Susan Ballawies 13
William Ballawies 11
Eliza Baldwin 5
George Baldwin 3
Susan Baldwin 97

You have put

'I recently received the birth cert of my x2 Grandfather Thamos Ogden, and I noticed that where Mothers name is, it say Susan Baldwin, but no mention of Ogden.'

The Mother's name showing should be her maiden name, so would be Baldwin if that was her unmarried name, and Ogden is the surname of the Father and child.
Was the Father's name showing?

Thomas Ogden
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Ogden
Mother's name: Susan Ogden
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: St Leonard
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 246
Piece: 235
Folio: 21
Page Number: 46
Household Members: Name Age
John Ogden 38 (carpenter)
Susan Ogden 30
Henry Ogden 8
Eliza Ogden 6
Thomas Ogden 4
Fanny Ogden 1

Thank you.
Looks like Susannah who died in 1870, could be the one.

Len

This looks like the family in 1861

John Ogden
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susan Ogden
Gender: Male
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: St Leonard
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 246
Piece: 235
Folio: 21
Page Number: 46
Household Members:
Name Age
John Ogden 38
Susan Ogden 30
Henry Ogden 8
Eliza Ogden 6
Thomas Ogden 4 b Shoreditch, Middlesex,
Fanny Ogden 1