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James William Harrod

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Dereen Report 24 Feb 2013 15:10

James was married to an Alice with three children. Harriet Mary b1889, Florence b1892 and George b 1896. The family seems to move around and at one point called themselves Williams. James was born in Norfolk and was a chimney sweep. Alice has two surnames - Radford ad Morrey (Morray) and the children were all born in different places. Two in Wales and one in Birmingham. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places but I can find no trace of him.


Potty Report 24 Feb 2013 15:18


Have you found the family on any census? If so, please will you post the details? Also, which child was born where?


Potty Report 24 Feb 2013 15:21

Is this Florence and George in 1911?

1911 England Census
about Florence Harrod
Name: Florence Harrod
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Wales
Civil parish: Middleton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 103 Wood St Middleton Nr Manchester
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Ring Spinner
Registration district: Oldham
Registration District Number: 469
Sub-registration district: Middleton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 24563
Household Members: Name Age
Moses Dakin 26
Mary Harriet Dakin 22
Florence Harrod 18
George Harrod 15 b Birmingham


Potty Report 24 Feb 2013 15:24

Looks like Mary Harriet in the 1911 was the other sister and married Moses Dakin:

Marriages Jun 1908 (>99%)

Dakin Moses Oldham 8d 1269
DURKIN Agnes Oldham 8d 1269
Harrod Mary Harriet Oldham 8d 1269
SMITH Herbert Oldham 8d 1269


Potty Report 24 Feb 2013 15:30

Calling themselves Williams in 1901. Do you have the children's birth certs? Is that where you got the MMNs from?

1901 England Census
about Harriet Williams
Name: Harriet Williams
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Williams
Mother's name: Alice Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: Baggitt, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Oldham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:


Condition as to marriage:


Employment status: View image

Registration district: Oldham
Sub-registration district: Oldham Below Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 182
Piece: 3809
Folio: 45
Page Number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
James Williams 38
Alice Williams 34 b Farnworth
Harriet Williams 14
George Williams 5
Florence Williams


patchem Report 24 Feb 2013 16:58

Is this George's birth?
Births Jun 1896
Harrod George Birmingham 6d 71

For the 1901 that Potty has posted, the birth place is 'Baggitt, Shropshire' However, Shropshire (Salop) was added in a different hand, and do you know where Baggitt is, as nothing show when I search?

Possibly Bagillt, Flintshire, near Holywell?


Potty Report 25 Feb 2013 11:02

There is a Hope Bagot in Shropshire.

There is quite a difference in the ages of Harriet and George, 9 years.

Dereen, do you have the children's birth certs? If so, which child has which MMN?


Dereen Report 26 Feb 2013 14:41

Hello Potty
Have only just got the messages sent by you. Yes I have copies of all birth certificates.

Mary Harriet, born 6/2/1889 Holywell, Flintshire. Mother Alice Harold formerly Moray, father James Harold, coal miner.

Florence, born 15/9/1892 Wrexham, Denbighshire. Mother Alice Harrad formerly Morey, father James William Harrad, railway labourer.

I have search all variables to try to find James William without success. Contacted the Welsh Genealogy Society also had a search done in Birmingham.

I'm now thinking James is a figment of my imagination. The only clue is he seems to have been born in Norfolk.

I hope I've answerejd you questions.


GlitterBaby Report 26 Feb 2013 14:46

Where have you got the surname of Radford for Alice from ?


Dereen Report 26 Feb 2013 14:58

Hello GlitterBaby
Redford comes from George Harrods birth certificate.


Potty Report 27 Feb 2013 10:32

So, the youngest child is the one with the different MMN. That suggests that the original Alice died and James remarried. The James Williams in the 1901 is a sweep - so that is at least 3 different jobs for James. Do you have any of the children's marriage certs? If so, what occupation is given for him on that? It would help to have all the info from all the certs. Is the birth cert for Harriet in the name of Mary Harriet or Harriet Mary?


Potty Report 27 Feb 2013 10:36

Sorry Dereen, only just seen your PMs? You have obviously found your way back to this thread - much better to post here than by sending PMs - that way everyone can see what has been found.

Not sure what your message re a photo is about and you seem to have changed the name to Harrodsburg??


Dereen Report 27 Feb 2013 15:07

On her birth certificate Mary Harriet is Mary Harriet although I think she was known a Harriet I have a copy of her marriage certificate to Moses Dakin. Father's name here is James Harrod, Chimney Sweep.

I do not know who Florence married or anything else about her.
George, my father, went into the navy in c1912. I cannot find a marriage certificate for George and Martha Lloyd Harris, my mother. I believe that fleet marriages were not registered in the civil section, but Icould be wrong about this.


Dereen Report 27 Feb 2013 15:14

Yes I'm getting the hang of it now.
I use my husband's ipad and its kindly changed my name to Harrodsburg!!!
A photo appeared next to one of your posts and the words: Is this Florence and George? So I wondered where the photo had come from. I have no photos or documents appertaining to my father's family. I can now see that your reference was to the 1911 census and was of course correct. The three siblings were all living with Moses, Harriet's husband.


patchem Report 27 Feb 2013 18:12

Marriages Dec 1918
Harrod Florence Nuttall Oldham 8d 1081
Nuttall Fred Harrod Oldham 8d 1081


Potty Report 28 Feb 2013 10:25

Derren, the photo is my avatar - it appears on all my posts, so sorry, it is not of your family. (It is actually me as a very small baby, being held by my aunt.)

Where have you looked for your parents' marriage and do you have an idea of when it was? Findmypast have forces indexes, but I don't have access. Maybe somebody who does could look it up?


Potty Report 28 Feb 2013 11:06

Who were the witnesses on Harriet's marriage cert?


Dereen Report 28 Feb 2013 11:14

Thank you Patchem. This seems totally possible. They did live in Oldham.


Potty Report 28 Feb 2013 11:19

Sorry, Dereen, I can't find anything on either James or Alice. They just seem to appear out of nowhere in 1901!


Dereen Report 28 Feb 2013 11:41

Thank you Potty for the info. Sorry for my ignorance. The witnesses on Harriet,s marriage certificate were an Eli Price and Maria Hattersley. Harriet lived in Middleton and the marriage date was 18th April 1908. Marriage took place at Oldham Reg. Office.

George was discharged from the Navy in 1926 which rather blows my belief that my parents were already married at that time - so I've been barking up the wrong tree. However, there is an entry in the family bible that the marriage took place in Manchester on 14th June 1929. I can find no trace but perhaps I have missed it.

Unfortunately for me my parents' attitude was that anything that happened before my birth was 'none of my business'. Too late now.