Find Ancestors

Just noticed an anomaly - on the marriage of Anne Turner and Albert Course in 1875 her father's name is given as William Turner. On the marriage of Anne Herniman to John Partridge in 1897 her father is given as James Turner (occupation looks like Stock Marker)

from death cert 9th dec 1923 orsett district

albert edward course 73 yrs old
informant g d course 78 calcutta rd tilbury
this is the gd course who married charlotte munson

from george dixon army records his signature
is very similar to mine

g

:-)

That's the death I thought was correct, so who was it died in 1955?

You have Harry Partridge died in Bournemouth in 1974.

Do you have the death certificate?
How do you know that it is the correct Harry Partridge?
Did he marry, if so, have you that marriage certificate for his age?

At the moment I would say that Harry Partridge, 1878, is actually Henry, 1888.

Have you got the death reference for Mr Herniman from drowning in the River Lee?

Annie Turner's mother is Anne, aged 70 in 1901, to help find her.

Day:26
Month:Aug
Year:1875
Groom forename:Albert
Groom surname:COURSE
Groom's residence:of Norwich St
Groom's condition:bac
Groom's occupation:packer
Groom's age:24
Groom's father's forename:William
Groom's father's surname:
Groom's father's occupation:lab
Bride forename:Anne
Bride surname:TURNER
Bride's residence:of Norwich St
Bride's condition:sp
Bride's occupation:[blank]
Bride's age:20
Bride's father's forename:William
Bride's father's surname:
Bride's father's occupation:fitter
By Licence:by banns
Place:Cambridge, St Paul
County:Cambridgeshire,England
Witness 1 forename:Henry
Witness 1 surname:BENNER
Witness 2 forename:Sarah (x)
Witness 2 surname:BENNER

(bit more on above, if any help!)

Chris :)


Births Mar 1851 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Course Albert N Witchford 14 138

(his Baptism, 1853 Little Eversden)

1851
COURSE, William Head Married M 27 1824 Ag Lab
Eversdan, Cambridgeshire
COURSE, Sarah Wife Married F 27 1824 Ag Lab
Royston, Huntingdonshire
COURSE, Laura Daughter Unmarried F 3 1848
Huntingdon, Huntingdonshire
COURSE, Albert Son Unmarried M 0 (2 MOS) 1851
Benwick, Cambridgeshire
Piece: 1765
Folio: 543
Page: 21
Registration District: North Witchford
Civil Parish: Benwick
Municipal Borough:
Address: Puttock Toll, Benwick
County: Cambridgeshire

1861
COURSE, William Head Married M 37 1824 Labourer
Little Eversden, Cambridgeshire
COURSE, Sarah Wife F 37 1824
Roydon, Hertfordshire (Royston)
COURSE, Albert Son Unmarried M 10 1851 Scholar
..., Cambridgeshire (Benwick)
COURSE, Fanny Daughter F 8 1853 Scholar
Little Eversden, Cambridgeshire
COURSE, Louisa Daughter F 5 1856 Scholar
Little Eversden, Cambridgeshire
COURSE, Janett Daughter F 2 1859 Scholar
Little Eversden, Cambridgeshire
Piece: 1024
Folio: 22
Page: 37
Registration District: Cambridge
Civil Parish: St Andrew the Less
Municipal Borough: Cambridge
Address: 8, Smarts Row, St Andrew The Less, Cambridge
County: Cambridgeshire

1871
COURSE, William Head M 48 1823 Cambridgeshire
COURSE, Sarah Wife F 48 1823 Hertfordshire
COURSE, Albert H Son M 20 1851 Cambridgeshire
COURSE, Janette Daughter F 12 1859 Cambridgeshire
Piece: 1586
Folio: 77
Page: 15
Registration District: Cambridge
Civil Parish: St Andrew the Less
Municipal Borough: Cambridge
Address: Smart's Row, St Andrew The Less, Cambridge
County: Cambridgeshire

1881
COURSE, Sarah Head Widow F 59 1822 Dressmaker
Royston, Hertfordshire
Piece: 1665
Folio: 76
Page: 22
Registration District: Cambridge
Civil Parish: Cambridge St Andrew the Less
Municipal Borough:
Address: 8, Smarts Row, Cambridge St Andrew The Less
County: Cambridgeshire


Baptism
Day:23
Month:Nov
Year:1887
Forenames:Annie Janette Laura
Surname:COURSE
Relationship:of
Father forenames:Albert
Fathers occupation:porter
Mother forenames:Annie
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode:of Church Street
Place:Cambridge, St Andrew the Less
County:Cambridgeshire,England


Births Jun 1879 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Course Anne Janet L Fulham 1a 204

This could explain why she married in Cambridge even though she and her mother were born in London on censuses:
1871 England Census
Ann Turner Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Turner
Mother's name: Ann Turner
Gender: Female Where born: London, England
Civil parish: St Andrew the Less Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
County/Island: Cambridgeshire Country: England Registration district: Cambridge Sub-registration district: St Andrew the Less
ED, institution, or vessel: 14 Household schedule number: 100 Piece: 1587
Folio: 60 Page Number: 19
William Turner 47 Porter G N R Newcastle Northumberland
Ann Turner 41
Ann Turner 15
John Hills 22
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1587; Folio: 60; Page: 19; GSU roll: 829807.

1861 England Census
William Turner Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Turner
Gender: Male Where born: Newcastle Under Lyme
Civil parish: Hitchin County/Island: Hertfordshire Country: England
Street Address: Great Northern railway cottages
Occupation: fitter
Registration district: Hitchin Sub-registration district: Hitchin
ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Household schedule number: 99 Piece: 818 Folio: 73 Page Number: 22
William Turner 35
Ann Turner 31
Ann Turner 5 Islington
Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 818; Folio: 73; Page: 22; GSU roll: 542706.

Have found a newspaper article from June 1891 where an Albert Herniman (32) committed suicide in the River Lea whilst temporarily insane.

He was a traveller of 106 Catford Road, Dalston.

His wife (un-named) and two children were left penniless and the jury raised a subscription for them

EDIT: The newspaper was the Essex Newsman Saturday 20 June 1891. It states his body was found floating in the river on the Monday and the inquest was held on the Wednesday at Leyton Town Hall.

I can see marriages for Alfred Henry and James Edward Herniman, not Albert.
But then we do not know that she married him.
Not yet found him on censuses.
Was the suicide in 1891 after the census, or dates not clear?

Thanks, just read your added bit after I posted.

Cannot see his death in free bmd.

Patchem, his body was found Monday 15 June 1891. It would be this death:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915

Name: Albert Herminan
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1891
Age at Death: 33
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 148

Thanks
I was trying H*man not H*nan. etc etc.

There were two Albert Herniman's born around the same time, both Somerset.

One was born North Petherton, son of Job and Jemima, was an RSPCA inspector and married an Ada - have followed him through to 1911.

The other was born Corfe and was the son of Henry & Cordelia - can't find him after 1871 (but haven't tried very hard yet).

Can't find the address of 106 Catford Road given in the newspaper.

I was looking at this family, because they were in London, but have tea to make
1881 England Census
James Herniman Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Herniman
Gender: Male Where born: St Giles, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Giles in the Fields
County/Island: London Country: England
Street Address: 80 Dudley St Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Blacklead Maker
Registration district: St GilesSub-registration district: St Giles, North
ED, institution, or vessel: 7c Piece: 327 Folio: 69 Page Number: 24
James Herniman 35
Sarah Herniman 26
Alice Herniman 9
James Herniman 6
Charles Herniman 1
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 327; Folio: 69; Page: 24; GSU roll: 1341071.

1891 (possible?, with Dalston)
HIRMMAN, Albert Head Married M 32 1859 Traveller Minerals
Somersetshire
HIRMMAN, Annie Wife Married F 33 1858 Dressmaker
London
HIRMMAN, Perry Son M 5 1886
London
HIRMMAN, Harry Son M 2 1889
London
Piece: 188
Folio: 118
Page: 32
Registration District: Hackney
Civil Parish: Hackney
Municipal Borough:
Address: 160, Culford Road, Hackney
County: London

Chris :)

http://www.census1891.com/streets-c.htm

(useful link for 1891 London)

That's it Chris - what a star, I've been giving myself a headache looking for them. I'll book mark that site.

I think that proves that Harry thought to have been born 1878 was actually born 1888. It's quite possible that when his death was registered in 1974 that a mistake was made with his age (I did that when registering my own dad's). If he really had been born 1878 then surely he would have been on the 1881 census?

It's most likely that Albert Herniman was the father of William Percy and Harry and they took their stepfather's name later.

Found the baptisms:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Henry Arthur Ricardo Hernaman
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 10 Jul 1894
Father's Name: Albert Hernaman (Traveller - deceased)
Mother's name: Annie Hernaman
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haggerston St Columba
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address: 196 Kingsland Road

Baptised the same day was his bother Percy Gordon Hernaman, also stating Albert as his father.

No actual birthdates given but for some reason Annie has decided to get them baptised a few years on.
..................................................................................................................

Percy's birth registered in his mother's present married name:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: William Percy G Course
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1886
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 351

but Harry registered with his father's surname:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Henry Arthur R Herniman
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1888
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 486

So William Percy Gordon and Harry were full brothers, not half brothers. That's why they stayed with their mother and the other children stayed with Albert.

It seems that William Percy chose to retain the surname in which he was registered whereas Harry chose to be known by his stepfather's name.

Thanks all

I have found in 1901 census

1901 Census Household Record
Household information
Address 15 Upper Westbourne Villas
Civil Parish Aldrington

Ecclesiastical Parish St Leonard
Parliamentary Borough or Division Lewes
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Hove
Administrative County Sussex

Householder 1
Name Anne Partridge
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 45
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington

Householder 2
Name Henry Partridge
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 13
Sex Male

Where Born London Homerton

Householder 3
Name John Partridge
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 49
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Coachman
Employment Status
Where Born Hereford Eastnor

Householder 4
Name Percy Partridge
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 15
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Errand Boy
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington

Householder 5
Name Anne Turner
Relation to Head of Family Mother In Law
Condition as to Marriage Widow
Age Last Birthday 71
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London St Andrews

these look good and explains how the family got
to the south coast and the witness on the marriage cert

will check the various names further as well.
some where also i did see reference to the Herniman name
where the wife is listed sons etc but father deseased in
east london area may not be connected but interesing if i
can find it again

THANKS

regards
Graham
:-) :-) :-)

Graham,
We have already posted that 1901
10 Mar 2013 11:27

Can I repeat my questions which you have not answered?

'You have Harry Partridge died in Bournemouth in 1974.

Do you have the death certificate?
How do you know that it is the correct Harry Partridge?
Did he marry, if so, have you that marriage certificate for his age?

At the moment I would say that Harry Partridge, 1878, is actually Henry, 1888.

Have you got the death reference for Mr Herniman from drowning in the River Lee?'

In addition, you have not commented in the 10 year difference in age for Henry/Harry.
Your opinion, please?

in answer to your questions:-

Harry Partridge did die in Bournemouth in 1974.

Do you have the death certificate? no

How do you know that it is the correct Harry Partridge?he's related

Did he marry, if so, have you that marriage certificate for his age?no

At the moment I would say that Harry Partridge, 1878, is actually Henry, 1888.

Have you got the death reference for Mr Herniman from drowning in the River Lee?' no- but someone is sending a copy of the1891 newspaper artical to me

In addition, you have not commented in the 10 year difference in age for Henry/Harry.
Your opinion, please? this is probabley to do with the secretcy at the time as
probabley no birth cert was available and age was estimated although my gfather died at the age of 93

I hope to find the baptismal records to solve some of these anomalies

regards
gdc