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I am looking for ancestors of John Harris and Elizabeth Talbot. Both their fathers were named John. John Harris snr was a Carpenter (John jnr an engineer/iron shutter maker) at time of marriage to Eliz (can't read John T's occ). John and Eliz had 8 children (John 1846, George 1847, Mary Ann 1848, Emma 1850, Maria 1852, Elizabeth 1854, Robert 1856, Henry 1863 - my dir ancestor).
As you can imagine, John Harris and John Talbot are very common names - where do I start to find out more details. I cannot find John or Eliz births (but I have Eliz baptism which names the father as John and mother Sarah - 3 March 1822 St Giles without Cripplegate).
Addresses at time of marriage - John was in Rose St and Elizabeth in Wellington St in Central London. The then lived in Garlick Hill.
I believe John H snr lived in Butcher
John T I believe married Sarah Green and they had a daughter Frances Elizabeth b 1813ish and married Richard Jeffs. I cannot find any other info or any of them on the censuses John snr's or John/Eliz in 1841 or 1871/81 census
can anyone help nudge me in right direction..thanks :-S

Welcome to the boards Karen.

Lets see what we can find for you.

As they were both born before July 1837, baptisms are the only records available

What does 1851 census say about their respective birthplaces?

For INFO

Marriages Jun 1843 (>99%)

Harris John E London 2 192
TALBOT Elizabeth Ann E London 2 192


The female's second forename may help your search

1851 census


Person: HARRIS, Elizabeth Address: 12, Crane Court, Saint Mary Magdalen,
HARRIS, John Head Married M 29 1822 Labourer
Stoke Newington, Middlesex VIEW
HARRIS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 29 1822
London, Middlesex VIEW
HARRIS, John Son Unmarried M 6 1845
London, Middlesex VIEW
, George Son Unmarried M 4 1847
London, Middlesex VIEW
HARRIS, Mary Ann Daughter Unmarried F 3 1848
London, Middlesex VIEW
HARRIS, Emma Daughter Unmarried F 0 (11 MOS) 1851
London, Middlesex

Which child of this marriage is your direct line?

I see what you mean about not being able to read what occupation John Talbot had. It could read Carters or something else.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about John Harris
Name: John Harris
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Ann Talbot
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Apr 1843
Parish: St Giles without Cripplegate
Borough: City of London
Father Name: John Harris
Spouse Father Name: John Talbot
Register Type: Parish Register

Hi Reggie
Thanks - I have the marriage of John and Eliz Ann. 1851 census states John b West Hackney and Eliz St Giles.

1861 census


Person: HARRIS, Elizabeth Ann Address: 18, Gartick Hill, St James Garlickhithe, London

HARRIS, John Head Married M 39 1822 Labouring Smith
West Hackney VIEW
HARRIS, Elizabeth Ann Wife Married F 39 1822
...City of London VIEW
HARRIS, Mary Ann Daughter F 13 1848 Scholar
St Lukes VIEW
HARRIS, Emma Daughter F 11 1850 Scholar
Beckham, Surrey VIEW
HARRIS, Maria Daughter F 9 1852 Scholar
St Mary Magdalen City of London VIEW
HARRIS, Robert Son M 5 1856
Quarry Heath City of London, ... VIEW
HARRIS, Elizabeth Daughter F 2 1859
Quarry Heath City of London, .

1851 John says born Stoke Newington..............by 1861, he'd changed his birthplace to West Hackney.

Doesn't help us all these years down the line!

I posted the various sets of records to help others trying to help you

The fact that Elizabeth had a second forename could make all the difference in trying to find her before her marriage

Thanks - if you read my initial thread - I have the 1851 census and marriage - it is really the 2 fathers I am after

Could this be them?

1871 England Census
about John J Harris
Name: John J Harris
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
[1819]
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Harris
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Hampstead St John
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Hampstead
Sub-registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 67
Piece: 196
Folio: 56
Page Number: 18
Household Members: Name Age
John J Harris 50
Elizabeth Harris 52
Mary Ann Harris 24
Fanny M Harris 22
Caroline P Harris 10
Emma Odle 28
Thomas A Speach 28

My direct line is Henry Hariis b 1863 - the only census I have him on is 1881 when he lived with his brother Robert. I have all other info on him but nothing PRIOR to 1881 apart from birth and baptism (he ended up in Canada)

Do the names of the witnesses hold any clues?

I saw that 1871 census, but looking back on other censuses this family appears alongside my John and Elizabeth - the ones in Hampstead were publicans

I DID read your thread......I KNOW what you're looking for, and I WAS trying to help!

The info was posted to help OTHERS

Easier to assimilate when posted as transcribed

Cheerio......................

witnesses at John and Eliz marriage were Eliz brother-in-law Richard Jeffs (m to her sister Frances) and John's sister Mary Ann

sorry Reggie, wasnt being rude although it obviously came across that way, I do apologise x

What info do you have on Frances and Mary Ann? DOBs?

Emma Harris born 7th April 1850

Maris Elizabeth born 8th April 1852.

Both baptised on the same day.

Address 12 Little Knight Rider St.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Emma Harris
Name: Emma Harris
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Jan 1854
Father's Name: John Harris
Mother's name: Elizabeth Ann Harris
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Mary Magdalene Old Fish Street
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers