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David Bell b Dublin 19115/1916

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Judith

Judith Report 13 Mar 2013 22:09

Could someone please help me with this pressing problem.
My Uncle William Herbert Bell b Feb 1914 Donnybrook Dublin South.
He is still living now aged 99yrs in NZ and is desperately searching for any information about his younger brother David Bell born Dublin 1915/1916 but sent to relatives in Scotland as a baby.
My Uncle never saw him again.
Their parents:
Mother :Elizabeth Esther Thompson b c1892 Dublin d 1916 of TB.
Her parents: John Thompson and Annie Brown living Clontarf Dublin

Father: William Bell b c1886 and bapt Parish Church Raheny Dublin Went to England, remarried to Bertha Wilkes then came to NZ where he has since died.
His parents:John Bell b Wexford and Susan ? b Wexford

My Uncle is still very mobile and mentally alert and I keep telling him to hang on in there as he has been trying to find info about David since before 1970 but with no luck. It's the one thing he'd love to know before he dies.
Please please - can anybody help??
Many many thanks,
Judith

Reggie

Reggie Report 13 Mar 2013 22:50

Have you looked in 'search all trees'?

Judith

Judith Report 13 Mar 2013 22:56

No I haven't. Thank you very much for that for that

Vicci

Vicci Report 14 Mar 2013 00:06

Do you know the names of the relaitves that he went to live with in Scotland and where in Scotland?
He may have changed his name to their name.
The scotlanspeople wesbite has 1 death record for a David Bell with mother's surname Thompson, to view the record you wold have to buy credits on the wesbite.

Ireland civil registration:
I can't find a David Bell born dublin ireland 1915/16 only in 1913

Name: David Herbert Bell
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1913
Registration district: Dublin South
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 2
Page: 579
FHL Film Number: 101075

Bell's born 1916 in the Dublinm South ditstrict
George Noel
Joseph


Vicci

Vicci Report 14 Mar 2013 00:17

death - so not your guy

Name: David Herbert Bell
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1913
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1913
Death Age: 0
Registration district: Dublin South
Death Country: Ireland
Volume: 2
Page: 435
FHL Film Number: 0101605

Judith

Judith Report 14 Mar 2013 00:59

Thanks very much for that Vicci.
Strangely enough my Uncle is called William Herbert Bell.
Now that's making me think that perhaps David was the older brother who died at birth and they brought the name Herbert through again with my Uncle.
I will definitely follow that up as I don't really want to givel my Uncle that news until I get the records and check it out.
It's hard to shatter memories.
Once again many thanks
Judith.

Judith

Judith Report 14 Mar 2013 01:07

Sorry Vicci, I didn't answer your question.
No, my Uncle has no idea who the people in Scotland were and Heorge Noel and Joseph in Dublin don't pop up in his Bell line at all.
Thanks

Gins

Gins Report 14 Mar 2013 07:17

Hi Judith

I dont know what your opening post said as its been RRd, no idea why?

If you could post some more info about the family, parents, siblings to David and any marriages, it might help

Is this the birth of your uncle?


Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958

Name: William Herbert Bell
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1914
Registration district: Dublin South
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 2
Page: 570
FHL Film Number: 101075


You can send for Irish BMD certificates here


http://www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 14 Mar 2013 07:49

This is the only Thompson family living Clontarf area with father John mother Ann daughter Eliz. of about right age 1901.

Residents of a house 5.3 in Merville Avenue (Clontarf West, Dublin)

Thompson John 41 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Dublin Labourer Read and write - Married -
Thompson Annie 34 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Monaghan - Read and write - Married -
Thompson William 13 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Dublin - Read and write - Thompson Elizabeth 8 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Dublin - Read and write - Thompson John 5 Male Son Church of Ireland

1911 shows them living Clontarf East

Residents of a house 34 in Brian Boru Avenue (Clontarf East, Dublin)

Ann states married 27 years now a widow 8 children born 5 still living....
Thompson Annie 49 Female Head of Family Church Ireland Co Fermanagh - Read only - Widow - 27 8 5
Thompson Elizabeth 19 Female Daughter Church Ireland County Dublin - Read and write - Single - - - -
Thompson John 15 Male Son Church Ireland County Dublin General Labourer Read and write - Single - - - -
Thompson James 9 Male Son Church Ireland County Dublin Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Thompson Albert 6 Male Son Church Ireland County Dublin Scholar

This gives a time frame for Elizabeths marriage to John Bell.

Will someone explain just why the posting was requested for review ?????


Gins

Gins Report 14 Mar 2013 07:56

Morning Erin~~~

Working in the dark here but going on your info, could this be the marriage to John Bell? A groom is missing from this entry


Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958

Name: Elizabeth Thompson
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1912
Registration district: Dublin South
Volume: 2
Page Number: 613
FHL Film Number: 101262
Records on Page: Name

Elizabeth Thompson
Marion Talbot
Benjamin Jones


Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 14 Mar 2013 08:28

Morning Gins....Good job I recalled some of what Judith had posted..(In Short)

Elizabeth "Esther" Thompson daughter of John Thompson and Ann Brown..Clontarf..married a Wm. Bell and when Eliz died 1914 "David" (a baby at the time) was sent to Rel.in Scotland...

Wm Bell went to England subsequently married a Bertha Wilkes and then they went to NZ .
She is searching for any info.re. David on behalf of his brother (her uncle) William Herbert Bell (99yrs old) living NZ.

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 14 Mar 2013 08:40

Judith have found the following...(Not helping find David but some pieces of the jigsaw)

John Thomson was the son of Wm Thompson and Letitia born Warrenpoint Feb 5th 1854....Baptised Clontarf.
He married Ann Brown on 22 Dec 1884. Clontarf Parish Church (COI)
Name JOHN THOMPSON ANNIE BROWN
Address 5 SEAVIEW CLONTARF 15 CASTLE AVEE
Occupation GARDENER N/R
Father WM THOMPSON JOHN BROWN
Mother N/R N/R

Children Born/Baptised Clontarf

Letitia...11 Feb 1886
Thomas and Joseph 31 July 1890 looks like Twins
Elizabeth " Essay" 1892...now I imagine this your Eliz."Esther"....

Address given Seaview Clontarf...fathers occup.Gardener

You can source all the above from ....churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 14 Mar 2013 09:13

Well the posting has been reinstated.

GINS.....Sorry Eliz.married a William Bell...!! (have corrected my previous post...but didnt do to bad from memory eh..!!)

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 14 Mar 2013 09:28

1901 Wms family.....

Residents of a house 1 in Sybil Hill (part of Rural) (Drumcondra Rural, Dublin)

Bell John 46 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Wexford Gardener Domestic Servant Read and write - Married -
Bell Robert Harry 12 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Dublin Scholar Read and write - Bell Thomas Francis 8 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Dublin Scholar Cannot read - Bell William 15 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Dublin Message Boy Read and write - Bell Edward Daniel 2 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Dublin Infant
Bell Susan 43 Female Wife Church of Ireland b Co Wexford


Having problems with copy and pasting...dont know whats happening its ok on preview..

mgnv

mgnv Report 14 Mar 2013 10:37

The GRO(I) index thru 1958 (excl N. Ireland post-partition) is available at:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND

One can purchase certs (or cheaper still, the uncertified images of the rego) via:
http://www.groireland.ie/

The Irish 1901/1911 censuses are free at:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

Most City of Dublin parish registers are free online at:
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/


I think you will need David's date of birth - you might get this on a baptismal record, but most likely, you'll need his b.cert or the cheaper image of the original registration - Scottish d.certs have the d.o.b. from 1966 on.
You can see what's on a d.cert at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&628

If they're old enough, Scottish images of B/M/D rego's are pretty cheap - abt NZ$2.55 per image - old enough is 100/75/50 y - so, e.g., a 1937 (or older) marr is cheap - after that the price is almost 10 times that.
All Scottish BMDs can be purchased thru SP, at the site I gave above.
Assuming David knew his parents, he would name them on his m.cert, and if known to the informant, on his d.cert too.

The most recent available UK census is 1911.
After that, you'll need electoral rolls or city or phone directories to track adults.
By the time he would have married (if he did) women 21 y or older could vote, although after 1929 (I think) the minimum age for marr was (and still is) 16 y.

Gins

Gins Report 14 Mar 2013 16:41

Erin, I saw this one this morning but discounted it as it was not 'John'!

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
Name: William Bell
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1911
Registration district: Dublin North
Volume: 2
Page Number: 477
FHL Film Number: 101262
Records on Page: Name

Spouse: Elizabeth Esther Thompson


:-)

Gins

Gins Report 14 Mar 2013 16:50

And I wondered about this for William' parents?


Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
Name: John Bell
Date of Registration: 1873
Registration district: Dublin North
Volume: 17
Page Number: 493
FHL Film Number: 101252
Records on Page: Name

Spouse: Susan Oughton


And maybe a sister?


Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911
Name: Susan Bell
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 12 Dec 1877
Birth Place: Dublin, Ireland
Father's Name: John Bell
Mother's name: Susan Houghton Bell
FHL Film Number: 255998

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 14 Mar 2013 19:33

Have just found a posting by Judith on 6th march....

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/951721 (page 14)

She has 1901/1911 census aleady and John Bell's address is her family.

Judith

Judith Report 14 Mar 2013 22:16

Good morning all you lovely people.
Sorry about the slow response but like many an 'old timers' I need my sleep.
Although my Uncle did get a researcher on the Bell side back in the 70s he couldn't afford to keep going with the research although he did receive info back as far as his Bell Grdparents in the 1901/11 census.
I have done the same with his Thompson Grdparents and after hours of looking anywhere and everywhere had discovered the name Brown.
My Uncle has also allowed me to put hisfamily onto my tree - hence these enquiries.

As a result of Vicci's info I have now applied for what could be his missing brother David's Scottish DC. If necessary I will then apply for the Irish BC for David b1911.
I have also looked in 'search all trees' but felt partly daunted at the 300 options but as a start contacted a possible one - thank you Reggie.
Thanks Gins, mgnv and Eringobragh, you have all filled in with some more precious info as well.
On my Uncles behalf and mine, many heartfelt thanks for looking all this up.
Judith

Judith

Judith Report 14 Mar 2013 22:47

OOPS!
Meant Irish BC for David 1913 (not 1911).
Judith